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digitalmars.D - Dear Mr. Bright

reply Lester L. Martin II <Sarah ewam-associates.com> writes:
Dear Mr. Bright,
I couldn't find your email address so I have used webnews to contact you.  I
have created a project called D Installer.  The name tells what it does. I have
finished version one in just under a day. I would like to ask you if you would
add this under your downloads because it will make it much easier for newcomers
to adopt.  It has 3 options; nonet install, basic, and full.  I am currently
working on a custom option. The basic fully installs DMD, Phobos, and DMC.  The
full install fully installs DMD, Tango, and DSSS. The nonet install can be
tricked into installing anything.
Just thought this would be interesting for you to look at,
Lester L. Martin II
Sep 30 2007
next sibling parent reply "Janice Caron" <caron800 googlemail.com> writes:
On 9/30/07, Lester L. Martin II <Sarah ewam-associates.com> wrote:

 The full install fully installs DMD, Tango, and DSSS.


How can it be considered a "full" install of D if it doesn't install Phobos?

Sounds like you've got a good idea there, but you might want to
consider relabelling the options.
Sep 30 2007
parent reply Lester L. Martin II <Sarah ewam-associates.com> writes:
Basic install installs dmd and phobos.
Full install installs dmd and tango and dsss.
Tango and Phobos can not be used together in windows without a little batch
script.
Tango and Phobos can be used together in my next release if everything goes
well.
Janice Caron Wrote:


 On 9/30/07, Lester L. Martin II <Sarah ewam-associates.com> wrote:

 The full install fully installs DMD, Tango, and DSSS.


 
 How can it be considered a "full" install of D if it doesn't install Phobos?
 
 Sounds like you've got a good idea there, but you might want to
 consider relabelling the options.
Sep 30 2007
next sibling parent "Janice Caron" <caron800 googlemail.com> writes:
On 9/30/07, Lester L. Martin II <Sarah ewam-associates.com> wrote:

 Basic install installs dmd and phobos.
 Full install installs dmd and tango and dsss.
 Tango and Phobos can not be used together in windows without a little batch
script.


I know. That's exactly the point I was making. Phobos is officially
part of D, so you can't call it "full" if Phobos doesn't work out of
the box.

Tango is an unofficial third party extension. You just can't go around
saying it's part of a "full install" of D.

Don't get me wrong. I think you're installer is a great idea! It's
just the labelling I'm concerned about. Why not make a standard D
installer, and then a separate Tango installer. Nobody would have a
problem with that.
Sep 30 2007
prev sibling next sibling parent "Janice Caron" <caron800 googlemail.com> writes:
On 9/30/07, Janice Caron <caron800 googlemail.com> wrote:

 Don't get me wrong. I think you're installer is a great idea! It's
 just the labelling I'm concerned about.


Look at it from the point of view an average Windows D-newbie. They
think "Ooh, I'll do a full install, coz I want everything", and then
they'll suddenly discover that std.writefln() doesn't work. That would
be a really bad experience to have. It might put someone off D
altogether.

You have a good product there. Anything which makes D easier to get up
and running has got to be a good thing. Just try not to confuse the
newbies! :-)
Sep 30 2007
prev sibling parent reply Lutger <lutger.blijdestijn gmail.com> writes:
Lester L. Martin II wrote:

 Basic install installs dmd and phobos.
 Full install installs dmd and tango and dsss.
 Tango and Phobos can not be used together in windows without a little batch
script.
 Tango and Phobos can be used together in my next release if everything goes
well.


dmd + phobos + dsss would be a desirable option too. What about going 
one step further and letting the user do a custom install (selecting the 
desired components with some checkboxes)?
I think it would help D if eventually some IDE can be included in this 
way too (Descent, Codeblocks, Poseidon, ...). Better yet, can you 
include Ddbg?

Anyway, nice work!
Sep 30 2007
next sibling parent reply Lester L. Martin II <Sarah ewam-associates.com> writes:
Dear Lutger,
I like all your ideas.  I will add ability to do dmd and dsss and phobos today
if possible.  The other options such as IDE and DDBG will have to wait untill I
have custom options available.
Then I will work on those options as well as making dsss download selected
packages from your choices.
Lester L. Martin II
Lutger Wrote:


 Lester L. Martin II wrote:

 Basic install installs dmd and phobos.
 Full install installs dmd and tango and dsss.
 Tango and Phobos can not be used together in windows without a little batch
script.
 Tango and Phobos can be used together in my next release if everything goes
well.


 
 dmd + phobos + dsss would be a desirable option too. What about going 
 one step further and letting the user do a custom install (selecting the 
 desired components with some checkboxes)?
 I think it would help D if eventually some IDE can be included in this 
 way too (Descent, Codeblocks, Poseidon, ...). Better yet, can you 
 include Ddbg?
 
 Anyway, nice work!
Sep 30 2007
parent Lutger <lutger.blijdestijn gmail.com> writes:
Lester L. Martin II wrote:

 Dear Lutger,
 I like all your ideas.  I will add ability to do dmd and dsss and phobos today
if possible.  The other options such as IDE and DDBG will have to wait untill I
have custom options available.
 Then I will work on those options as well as making dsss download selected
packages from your choices.
 Lester L. Martin II


Sounds great to me!
Sep 30 2007
prev sibling parent Bruno Medeiros <brunodomedeiros+spam com.gmail> writes:
Lutger wrote:

 Lester L. Martin II wrote:

 Basic install installs dmd and phobos.
 Full install installs dmd and tango and dsss.
 Tango and Phobos can not be used together in windows without a little 
 batch script.
 Tango and Phobos can be used together in my next release if everything 
 goes well.


 
 dmd + phobos + dsss would be a desirable option too. What about going 
 one step further and letting the user do a custom install (selecting the 
 desired components with some checkboxes)?
 I think it would help D if eventually some IDE can be included in this 
 way too (Descent, Codeblocks, Poseidon, ...). Better yet, can you 
 include Ddbg?
 
 Anyway, nice work!


Hum, it's an interesting idea. Reminds me of Wascana, a similar idea the 
CDT devs had for their project:
http://beans.seartipy.com/2007/09/14/wascana-is-eclipse-based-standalone-c-ide-for-ms-windows/

-- 
Bruno Medeiros - MSc in CS/E student
http://www.prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?BrunoMedeiros#D
Sep 30 2007
prev sibling parent reply Lester L. Martin II <Sarah ewam-associates.com> writes:
Ok,
I'll change it to tango installtion and phobos instalation respectively; does
that sound better

Janice Caron Wrote:


 On 9/30/07, Lester L. Martin II <Sarah ewam-associates.com> wrote:

 Basic install installs dmd and phobos.
 Full install installs dmd and tango and dsss.
 Tango and Phobos can not be used together in windows without a little batch
script.


 
 I know. That's exactly the point I was making. Phobos is officially
 part of D, so you can't call it "full" if Phobos doesn't work out of
 the box.
 
 Tango is an unofficial third party extension. You just can't go around
 saying it's part of a "full install" of D.
 
 Don't get me wrong. I think you're installer is a great idea! It's
 just the labelling I'm concerned about. Why not make a standard D
 installer, and then a separate Tango installer. Nobody would have a
 problem with that.
Sep 30 2007
parent reply "Janice Caron" <caron800 googlemail.com> writes:
On 9/30/07, Lester L. Martin II <Sarah ewam-associates.com> wrote:

 Ok,
 I'll change it to tango installtion and phobos instalation respectively; does
that sound better


Oh yes. That's cool. That's superb. Excellent! :-)
Sep 30 2007
next sibling parent Lester L. Martin II <Sarah ewam-associates.com> writes:
Thank you Janice for your help. When you told me how it would confuse newbies
it made me look back and think and I figured you were right.  Without your help
I could have turned many people away from D.  With your help I was able to make
it even more newbie friendly than before.
Lester L. Martin II
Janice Caron Wrote:


 On 9/30/07, Lester L. Martin II <Sarah ewam-associates.com> wrote:

 Ok,
 I'll change it to tango installtion and phobos instalation respectively; does
that sound better


 
 Oh yes. That's cool. That's superb. Excellent! :-)
Sep 30 2007
prev sibling parent reply Derek Parnell <derek psych.ward> writes:
On Sun, 30 Sep 2007 12:31:17 +0100, Janice Caron wrote:


 On 9/30/07, Lester L. Martin II <Sarah ewam-associates.com> wrote:

 Ok,
 I'll change it to tango installtion and phobos instalation respectively; does
that sound better


 
 Oh yes. That's cool. That's superb. Excellent! :-)


But why would a newbie intuitively know that 'phobos' is the standard
library and 'tango' is a third-party library the precludes the standard
library?

-- 
Derek Parnell
Melbourne, Australia
skype: derek.j.parnell
Sep 30 2007
parent reply "Janice Caron" <caron800 googlemail.com> writes:
On 9/30/07, Derek Parnell <derek psych.ward> wrote:

 But why would a newbie intuitively know that 'phobos' is the standard
 library and 'tango' is a third-party library the precludes the standard
 library?


I imagine that, as with other Windows installers, the assumption is
that anyone who clicks on "Custom Install" and hand-picks what they
want, isn't a newbie.
Sep 30 2007
parent Derek Parnell <derek psych.ward> writes:
On Sun, 30 Sep 2007 17:10:12 +0100, Janice Caron wrote:


 On 9/30/07, Derek Parnell <derek psych.ward> wrote:

 But why would a newbie intuitively know that 'phobos' is the standard
 library and 'tango' is a third-party library the precludes the standard
 library?


 
 I imagine that, as with other Windows installers, the assumption is
 that anyone who clicks on "Custom Install" and hand-picks what they
 want, isn't a newbie.


Huh? Who's talking 'custom'? I certainly wasn't.

Originally it was ...

  "standard"  ==> phobos
  "full"      ==> tango

now its changed to ...

  "phobos"    ==> phobos
  "tango"     ==> tango

And while the names are now exactly what it does, it doesn't help people
who do not know that 'phobos' is the standard and 'tango' is not the
standard. I would have suggested ...

  "standard"    ==> phobos
  "alternative" ==> tango

 
-- 
Derek Parnell
Melbourne, Australia
skype: derek.j.parnell
Sep 30 2007