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digitalmars.D - D-dll support: testers needed round 2

reply Benjamin Thaut <code benjamin-thaut.de> writes:
My work on dll support for D continues. There is another 
iteration I need help testing with.

Getting started tutorial: 
http://stuff.benjamin-thaut.de/D/getting_started.html
The DIP can again found be here: 
https://github.com/Ingrater/DIPs/blob/ReviveDIP45/DIPs/DIP45.md
The DIP is not up to date. The tutorial is more recent. If the 
DIP and the tutorial contradict each other trust the tutorial. 
Its still useful to read the dip for context, especially as how 
to use "export" in code.

This time around the shared version of phobos should have all 
required symbols exported. This means when you link against the 
shared version of phobos and find a linker error, please report 
that here. Ideally with a reduced repro case.

A binary distribution is provided, see the tutorial for details.
Feb 09 2018
next sibling parent reply rikki cattermole <rikki cattermole.co.nz> writes:
On 09/02/2018 8:34 PM, Benjamin Thaut wrote:

 My work on dll support for D continues. There is another iteration I 
 need help testing with.
 
 Getting started tutorial: 
 http://stuff.benjamin-thaut.de/D/getting_started.html
 The DIP can again found be here: 
 https://github.com/Ingrater/DIPs/blob/ReviveDIP45/DIPs/DIP45.md
 The DIP is not up to date. The tutorial is more recent. If the DIP and 
 the tutorial contradict each other trust the tutorial. Its still useful 
 to read the dip for context, especially as how to use "export" in code.
 
 This time around the shared version of phobos should have all required 
 symbols exported. This means when you link against the shared version of 
 phobos and find a linker error, please report that here. Ideally with a 
 reduced repro case.
 
 A binary distribution is provided, see the tutorial for details.


-import switch makes me a little concerned, what exactly is it changing 
that makes it required?
Feb 09 2018
next sibling parent reply Benjamin Thaut <code benjamin-thaut.de> writes:
On Saturday, 10 February 2018 at 02:24:58 UTC, rikki cattermole 
wrote:

 On 09/02/2018 8:34 PM, Benjamin Thaut wrote:

 -import switch makes me a little concerned, what exactly is it 
 changing that makes it required?


Thank you Rikki for derailing this topic with the first post. As 
you might noticed, the title says "testers needed" not "concerns 
needed". And if you absolutly have to voice your concerns at 
least do it in a usefull way. Give a propper reason for your 
concerns, ideally a technical one. Not just "I'm concerned about 
x".

Did you Read DIP 45 in its current state? Did you watch my DConf 
Talk about Dll support? Did you understand how the shared library 
menchanism works on windows? If you did then the details behind 
the -import switch should be very self explanatory. If you didn't 
-import is needed for the compiler to know when to dllimport a 
symbol. If you need more detail you will have to wait until I 
updated DIP 45. With the little time I have at the moment I can't 
re-explain the full details of the implemenation to everyone in 
person, that would be very bad use of my time.

So if you want to help, download the binary distribution and give 
it a try. Try to find a corner case with dlls that my 
implementation doesn't cover. That would be useful.

Kind Regards
Benjamin Thaut
Feb 10 2018
parent Amorphorious <Amorphorious gmail.com> writes:
On Saturday, 10 February 2018 at 12:34:03 UTC, Benjamin Thaut 
wrote:

 On Saturday, 10 February 2018 at 02:24:58 UTC, rikki cattermole 
 wrote:

 On 09/02/2018 8:34 PM, Benjamin Thaut wrote:

 -import switch makes me a little concerned, what exactly is it 
 changing that makes it required?


 Thank you Rikki for derailing this topic with the first post. 
 As you might noticed, the title says "testers needed" not 
 "concerns needed". And if you absolutly have to voice your 
 concerns at least do it in a usefull way. Give a propper reason 
 for your concerns, ideally a technical one. Not just "I'm 
 concerned about x".

 Did you Read DIP 45 in its current state? Did you watch my 
 DConf Talk about Dll support? Did you understand how the shared 
 library menchanism works on windows? If you did then the 
 details behind the -import switch should be very self 
 explanatory. If you didn't -import is needed for the compiler 
 to know when to dllimport a symbol. If you need more detail you 
 will have to wait until I updated DIP 45. With the little time 
 I have at the moment I can't re-explain the full details of the 
 implemenation to everyone in person, that would be very bad use 
 of my time.

 So if you want to help, download the binary distribution and 
 give it a try. Try to find a corner case with dlls that my 
 implementation doesn't cover. That would be useful.

 Kind Regards
 Benjamin Thaut


lol, come on man!!! WTF?!?!?! You know D is filled with people 
who have to whine about "breaking changes" It's always either to 
whine than work.

I might give this a try if I ever get back in to D programming... 
as of now D is to screwed up for me to invest any more time. 
Great concept, poor implementation. Too much of a hodge podge of 
things without really thinking the consequences through.  It's 
not necessary bad but when you couple it with all the lame 
tooling and IDE's that offer no real efficiency it becomes an 
issue. Easier just to use a modern well equipped compiler with 
good documentation and good IDE's and good libraries.

It's kinda like someone invented a great car engine but forgot to 
put AC in it, manual windows, etc. Some people will love it just 
because of the engine... others are more balanced in there 
analysis and realize the engine isn't car and rather ride in 
style at the cost of a few HP than suffering in the heat just to 
get to their destination 0.53 min faster. Unfortunately D seems 
to be made up of people who only care about the engine.
Feb 11 2018
prev sibling parent Martin Nowak <code dawg.eu> writes:
On Saturday, 10 February 2018 at 02:24:58 UTC, rikki cattermole 
wrote:

 -import switch makes me a little concerned, what exactly is it 
 changing that makes it required?


I remember that we figured out that the MS Linker can optimize 
away the indirection when linking statically, so the paragraph 
seems a bit alarming 
https://github.com/Ingrater/DIPs/blob/ReviveDIP45/DIPs/DIP45.md#-useshared-compiler-flag.
Mar 21 2018
prev sibling next sibling parent reply evilrat <evilrat666 gmail.com> writes:
On Friday, 9 February 2018 at 20:34:33 UTC, Benjamin Thaut wrote:

 My work on dll support for D continues. There is another 
 iteration I need help testing with.

 Getting started tutorial: 
 http://stuff.benjamin-thaut.de/D/getting_started.html

 A binary distribution is provided, see the tutorial for details.


Played a bit with your binaries, here are some issues.

Importing non-compiled modules works ok.
However when doing manual library loading(both WinAPI LoadLibrary 
and Runtime.loadLibrary) things is the same as in vanilla DMD/LDC 
- casting not working.

Classes(incl. abstract) works in a hacky way (first cast to void* 
- then to actual class), again same as plain DMD, no changes here.

Interfaces doesn't work at all, doing the hack above on 
interface-derived object messes up vtbl/offsets, resulting in 
wrong function called.

-import switch seems to do the trick, but how to deal with 
dynamic loading?
Mar 20 2018
parent reply Rainer Schuetze <r.sagitario gmx.de> writes:
On 21/03/2018 07:46, evilrat wrote:

 On Friday, 9 February 2018 at 20:34:33 UTC, Benjamin Thaut wrote:

 My work on dll support for D continues. There is another iteration I 
 need help testing with.

 Getting started tutorial: 
 http://stuff.benjamin-thaut.de/D/getting_started.html

 A binary distribution is provided, see the tutorial for details.


 
 Played a bit with your binaries, here are some issues.
 
 Importing non-compiled modules works ok.
 However when doing manual library loading(both WinAPI LoadLibrary and 
 Runtime.loadLibrary) things is the same as in vanilla DMD/LDC - casting 
 not working.
 
 Classes(incl. abstract) works in a hacky way (first cast to void* - then 
 to actual class), again same as plain DMD, no changes here.
 
 Interfaces doesn't work at all, doing the hack above on 
 interface-derived object messes up vtbl/offsets, resulting in wrong 
 function called.
 
 -import switch seems to do the trick, but how to deal with dynamic loading?
 


I guess you want to cast to a class that is only defined in the 
dynamically loaded DLL? The problem is that casting needs a reference to 
the class info of the target class which only exists in the referenced 
DLL, which needs static DLL linkage.

One suggestion would be to export a common class/interface definition 
from a DLL that is referenced by both the dynamic DLL and the loading 
executable.
Mar 31 2018
parent evilrat <evilrat666 gmail.com> writes:
On Saturday, 31 March 2018 at 08:33:19 UTC, Rainer Schuetze wrote:

 I guess you want to cast to a class that is only defined in the 
 dynamically loaded DLL? The problem is that casting needs a 
 reference to the class info of the target class which only 
 exists in the referenced DLL, which needs static DLL linkage.

 One suggestion would be to export a common class/interface 
 definition from a DLL that is referenced by both the dynamic 
 DLL and the loading executable.


Common class defined in static lib linked with both exe & dll.

Cast to classes seems to be working when done through void* 
first. But unfortunattely interface casts didn't work 
correctly(vtable issues).
Mar 31 2018
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Martin Nowak <code dawg.eu> writes:
On Friday, 9 February 2018 at 20:34:33 UTC, Benjamin Thaut wrote:

 My work on dll support for D continues. There is another 
 iteration I need help testing with.

 Getting started tutorial: 
 http://stuff.benjamin-thaut.de/D/getting_started.html
 The DIP can again found be here: 
 https://github.com/Ingrater/DIPs/blob/ReviveDIP45/DIPs/DIP45.md
 The DIP is not up to date. The tutorial is more recent. If the 
 DIP and the tutorial contradict each other trust the tutorial. 
 Its still useful to read the dip for context, especially as how 
 to use "export" in code.


Glad to see some progress.
Given that the goal of DIP45 was seemless DLL support given just 
export annotations, the need for explicit -import module lists 
indeed requires an explanation. Looks like a classical 
dllexport/-import scheme now.
Mar 21 2018
parent Rainer Schuetze <r.sagitario gmx.de> writes:
On 21/03/2018 14:08, Martin Nowak wrote:

 On Friday, 9 February 2018 at 20:34:33 UTC, Benjamin Thaut wrote:

 My work on dll support for D continues. There is another iteration I 
 need help testing with.

 Getting started tutorial: 
 http://stuff.benjamin-thaut.de/D/getting_started.html
 The DIP can again found be here: 
 https://github.com/Ingrater/DIPs/blob/ReviveDIP45/DIPs/DIP45.md
 The DIP is not up to date. The tutorial is more recent. If the DIP and 
 the tutorial contradict each other trust the tutorial. Its still 
 useful to read the dip for context, especially as how to use "export" 
 in code.


 
 Glad to see some progress.
 Given that the goal of DIP45 was seemless DLL support given just export 
 annotations, the need for explicit -import module lists indeed requires 
 an explanation. Looks like a classical dllexport/-import scheme now.


AFAICT -import was an idea proposed by Walter because he didn't like 
-useshared that is still in the DIP.

A previous version of the DLL support implemented -useshared and worked 
quite well in my tests. For simplicity I prefer -useshared although it 
might incur a minor performance penalty when adding an indirection to a 
library that is actually linked statically (not sure about the linker 
optimization you mentioned in the other response).
Mar 31 2018
prev sibling parent Domain <dont_email empty.com> writes:
On Friday, 9 February 2018 at 20:34:33 UTC, Benjamin Thaut wrote:

 My work on dll support for D continues. There is another 
 iteration I need help testing with.


Any update?
Jul 01 2018