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digitalmars.D - Best windows Client Server lib

reply janderson <askme me.com> writes:
Hi,

I'm looking for a good network library for a project I'm considering 
starting.  Basically I need to be able to handle multiple users who 
would login then send messages and files back and forth with the server.

Has anyone done that?  What libraries are you using?  Anyone have any 
examples of performing the basic login procedure. I'd rather not start 
from scratch.

Cheers,
-Joel
Apr 07 2008
next sibling parent reply "Bruce Adams" <tortoise_74 yeah.who.co.uk> writes:
On Mon, 07 Apr 2008 09:04:39 +0100, janderson <askme me.com> wrote:


 Hi,

 I'm looking for a good network library for a project I'm considering  
 starting.  Basically I need to be able to handle multiple users who  
 would login then send messages and files back and forth with the server.

 Has anyone done that?  What libraries are you using?  Anyone have any  
 examples of performing the basic login procedure. I'd rather not start  
 from scratch.

 Cheers,
 -Joel


Depends on what your requirements are. You could get away with using any
mail server from the above alone or ssh / scp (secure shell) with  
appropriate
wrapping.
Apr 07 2008
next sibling parent reply janderson <askme me.com> writes:
Bruce Adams wrote:

 On Mon, 07 Apr 2008 09:04:39 +0100, janderson <askme me.com> wrote:
 

 Hi,

 I'm looking for a good network library for a project I'm considering 
 starting.  Basically I need to be able to handle multiple users who 
 would login then send messages and files back and forth with the server.

 Has anyone done that?  What libraries are you using?  Anyone have any 
 examples of performing the basic login procedure. I'd rather not start 
 from scratch.

 Cheers,
 -Joel


 
 Depends on what your requirements are. You could get away with using any
 mail server from the above alone or ssh / scp (secure shell) with 
 appropriate
 wrapping.


How?  Do you have any links to setting something like this up on windows?

Basically I want:

GUI: User logs in (or creates a new login)

User asks for/sends something.
Server Replies.
User asks for/sends something.
Server Replies.
etc...

It would be hidden behind a gui.

Cheers,
-Joel
Apr 07 2008
parent reply "Unknown W. Brackets" <unknown simplemachines.org> writes:
I think it sounds like what you want could simply use FTP as a backend, 
or even DAV.  Mail is most likely the completely wrong way to do it...

In fact you basically seem to be describing FTP (user asks for/sends... 
reply... etc.)  FTP, of course, is a bit slow (which is why Subversion, 
also similar in ways to what you describe, is implemented using DAV.)

Some questions to help narrow down your search:

Would all your clients be Windows?
Would your server also be Windows?
Do all clients only talk with the server, or with each other?
Do they relay things through the server, or just store things that other 
clients will then ask about?
Do you have any plans/desires for being able to scale the solution to 
more than a single server?
Do you need security/certificates/encryption?
Does the server actually need special logic, or is it a bucket?

I've actually taken part in writing an FTP server, and had a data 
communication server (it's used for multiplayer games and chat and 
stuff) contracted using D, but those were both simply using sockets. 
FWIW, if you decide to extend Phobos' Socket I strongly suggest 
recompiling Phobos as a debug build.  There are gotchas.

-[Unknown]


janderson wrote:

 Bruce Adams wrote:

 On Mon, 07 Apr 2008 09:04:39 +0100, janderson <askme me.com> wrote:


 Hi,

 I'm looking for a good network library for a project I'm considering 
 starting.  Basically I need to be able to handle multiple users who 
 would login then send messages and files back and forth with the server.

 Has anyone done that?  What libraries are you using?  Anyone have any 
 examples of performing the basic login procedure. I'd rather not 
 start from scratch.

 Cheers,
 -Joel


 Depends on what your requirements are. You could get away with using any
 mail server from the above alone or ssh / scp (secure shell) with 
 appropriate
 wrapping.


 
 How?  Do you have any links to setting something like this up on windows?
 
 Basically I want:
 
 GUI: User logs in (or creates a new login)
 
 User asks for/sends something.
 Server Replies.
 User asks for/sends something.
 Server Replies.
 etc...
 
 It would be hidden behind a gui.
 
 Cheers,
 -Joel
Apr 08 2008
parent reply janderson <askme me.com> writes:
Unknown W. Brackets wrote:

 I think it sounds like what you want could simply use FTP as a backend, 
 or even DAV.  Mail is most likely the completely wrong way to do it...
 
 In fact you basically seem to be describing FTP (user asks for/sends... 
 reply... etc.)  FTP, of course, is a bit slow (which is why Subversion, 
 also similar in ways to what you describe, is implemented using DAV.)


It should be very similar to Subversion.  Actually subversion may be 
used as a backend (ie to store history and stuff but no direct interface 
to the user).


 
 Some questions to help narrow down your search:
 
 Would all your clients be Windows?


To begin with yes.  In the long run I'd like to make it portable.


 Would your server also be Windows?


Yes.


 Do all clients only talk with the server, or with each other?


Just to the server.  Server, Client not peer to peer.


 Do they relay things through the server, or just store things that other 
 clients will then ask about?





 Do you have any plans/desires for being able to scale the solution to 
 more than a single server?


Eventually but not in the beginning.  I imagine it would need to support 
about 100 users, maybe 10 at a time.


 Do you need security/certificates/encryption?


Yeah, mainly for passwords so I can't see them, although encrypting all 
the data would probably be useful.


 Does the server actually need special logic, or is it a bucket?


The server will have some special logic, like special access privilages 
for users and stats tracking.  Basically I need to monitor and control 
every request the user makes and its a dynamic thing (ie a users 
privileges can change based on things they do).  I also may eventually 
add things like chat down the road.

Great questions BTW.


 
 I've actually taken part in writing an FTP server, and had a data 
 communication server (it's used for multiplayer games and chat and 
 stuff) contracted using D, but those were both simply using sockets. 
 FWIW, if you decide to extend Phobos' Socket I strongly suggest 
 recompiling Phobos as a debug build.  There are gotchas.
 
 -[Unknown]


Thanks.
Apr 08 2008
parent reply "Unknown W. Brackets" <unknown simplemachines.org> writes:
Heh, this is very related to my work... not to mention I write HTTP and 
FTP protocol implementations for fun...

It sounds like reusing HTTP for communication wouldn't be a bad thing 
for you.  With it, you would see the following benefits:

1. Standardized, so adding clients should be fairly easy.
2. Provides easy ways to use encryption (SSL.)
3. Fairly efficient (keep alive, chunked, etc.) assuming you use HTTP/1.1.
4. Supports caching and should (depending on your actual data storage.) 
ease scaling concerns should you worry about them.

Depending on your needs, I would suggest writing either a simple CGI or 
fast-cgi script to respond to http requests.  Writing a module for a 
webserver (ISAPI or Apache, for example) is also possible, and somewhat 
more efficient in cases, but also much harder with D.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CGI
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FastCGI (shows D implementation available.)

Unless you need a more persistent interface (with constant 
communication, messages originating spontaneously from the server, etc.) 
this will be much easier, more maintainable, and future-proof.  IMHO. 
Essentially, KISS.

FastCGI and CGI work with IIS, Apache, lighttpd, and many other webservers.

-[Unknown]


janderson wrote:

 Unknown W. Brackets wrote:

 I think it sounds like what you want could simply use FTP as a 
 backend, or even DAV.  Mail is most likely the completely wrong way to 
 do it...

 In fact you basically seem to be describing FTP (user asks 
 for/sends... reply... etc.)  FTP, of course, is a bit slow (which is 
 why Subversion, also similar in ways to what you describe, is 
 implemented using DAV.)


 
 It should be very similar to Subversion.  Actually subversion may be 
 used as a backend (ie to store history and stuff but no direct interface 
 to the user).
 

 Some questions to help narrow down your search:

 Would all your clients be Windows?


 
 To begin with yes.  In the long run I'd like to make it portable.
 

 Would your server also be Windows?


 
 Yes.
 

 Do all clients only talk with the server, or with each other?


 
 Just to the server.  Server, Client not peer to peer.
 

 Do they relay things through the server, or just store things that 
 other clients will then ask about?


 
 
 

 Do you have any plans/desires for being able to scale the solution to 
 more than a single server?


 
 Eventually but not in the beginning.  I imagine it would need to support 
 about 100 users, maybe 10 at a time.
 

 Do you need security/certificates/encryption?


 
 Yeah, mainly for passwords so I can't see them, although encrypting all 
 the data would probably be useful.
 

 Does the server actually need special logic, or is it a bucket?


 
 The server will have some special logic, like special access privilages 
 for users and stats tracking.  Basically I need to monitor and control 
 every request the user makes and its a dynamic thing (ie a users 
 privileges can change based on things they do).  I also may eventually 
 add things like chat down the road.
 
 Great questions BTW.
 

 I've actually taken part in writing an FTP server, and had a data 
 communication server (it's used for multiplayer games and chat and 
 stuff) contracted using D, but those were both simply using sockets. 
 FWIW, if you decide to extend Phobos' Socket I strongly suggest 
 recompiling Phobos as a debug build.  There are gotchas.

 -[Unknown]


 
 Thanks.
Apr 08 2008
next sibling parent "Unknown W. Brackets" <unknown simplemachines.org> writes:
Sorry, I should've also mentioned -

For the client you'll want a HTTP/1.1 client library, ideally.  I 
personally hate curl, and iirc Tango isn't actually compliant with 
HTTP/1.1 (would be glad to hear this has changed.)

Still, wouldn't be too hard to find one, modify Tango if it needs it, or 
otherwise I can probably look to see if I have one I can let you use/have.

I suppose you could also use WinINET on Windows which would gain you the 
user's proxy settings, but I don't really know anything about it.

-[Unknown]


Unknown W. Brackets wrote:

 Heh, this is very related to my work... not to mention I write HTTP and 
 FTP protocol implementations for fun...
 
 It sounds like reusing HTTP for communication wouldn't be a bad thing 
 for you.  With it, you would see the following benefits:
 
 1. Standardized, so adding clients should be fairly easy.
 2. Provides easy ways to use encryption (SSL.)
 3. Fairly efficient (keep alive, chunked, etc.) assuming you use HTTP/1.1.
 4. Supports caching and should (depending on your actual data storage.) 
 ease scaling concerns should you worry about them.
 
 Depending on your needs, I would suggest writing either a simple CGI or 
 fast-cgi script to respond to http requests.  Writing a module for a 
 webserver (ISAPI or Apache, for example) is also possible, and somewhat 
 more efficient in cases, but also much harder with D.
 
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CGI
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FastCGI (shows D implementation available.)
 
 Unless you need a more persistent interface (with constant 
 communication, messages originating spontaneously from the server, etc.) 
 this will be much easier, more maintainable, and future-proof.  IMHO. 
 Essentially, KISS.
 
 FastCGI and CGI work with IIS, Apache, lighttpd, and many other webservers.
 
 -[Unknown]
 
 
 janderson wrote:

 Unknown W. Brackets wrote:

 I think it sounds like what you want could simply use FTP as a 
 backend, or even DAV.  Mail is most likely the completely wrong way 
 to do it...

 In fact you basically seem to be describing FTP (user asks 
 for/sends... reply... etc.)  FTP, of course, is a bit slow (which is 
 why Subversion, also similar in ways to what you describe, is 
 implemented using DAV.)


 It should be very similar to Subversion.  Actually subversion may be 
 used as a backend (ie to store history and stuff but no direct 
 interface to the user).


 Some questions to help narrow down your search:

 Would all your clients be Windows?


 To begin with yes.  In the long run I'd like to make it portable.


 Would your server also be Windows?


 Yes.


 Do all clients only talk with the server, or with each other?


 Just to the server.  Server, Client not peer to peer.


 Do they relay things through the server, or just store things that 
 other clients will then ask about?





 Do you have any plans/desires for being able to scale the solution to 
 more than a single server?


 Eventually but not in the beginning.  I imagine it would need to 
 support about 100 users, maybe 10 at a time.


 Do you need security/certificates/encryption?


 Yeah, mainly for passwords so I can't see them, although encrypting 
 all the data would probably be useful.


 Does the server actually need special logic, or is it a bucket?


 The server will have some special logic, like special access 
 privilages for users and stats tracking.  Basically I need to monitor 
 and control every request the user makes and its a dynamic thing (ie a 
 users privileges can change based on things they do).  I also may 
 eventually add things like chat down the road.

 Great questions BTW.


 I've actually taken part in writing an FTP server, and had a data 
 communication server (it's used for multiplayer games and chat and 
 stuff) contracted using D, but those were both simply using sockets. 
 FWIW, if you decide to extend Phobos' Socket I strongly suggest 
 recompiling Phobos as a debug build.  There are gotchas.

 -[Unknown]


 Thanks.
Apr 08 2008
prev sibling parent Georg Wrede <georg nospam.org> writes:
Unknown W. Brackets wrote:

 Heh, this is very related to my work... not to mention I write HTTP and 
 FTP protocol implementations for fun...
 
 It sounds like reusing HTTP for communication wouldn't be a bad thing 
 for you.  With it, you would see the following benefits:
 
 1. Standardized, so adding clients should be fairly easy.
 2. Provides easy ways to use encryption (SSL.)
 3. Fairly efficient (keep alive, chunked, etc.) assuming you use HTTP/1.1.
 4. Supports caching and should (depending on your actual data storage.) 
 ease scaling concerns should you worry about them.


And, people from behind a firewall can use it.
Apr 09 2008
prev sibling parent janderson <askme me.com> writes:
Bruce Adams wrote:

 On Mon, 07 Apr 2008 09:04:39 +0100, janderson <askme me.com> wrote:
 

 Hi,

 I'm looking for a good network library for a project I'm considering 
 starting.  Basically I need to be able to handle multiple users who 
 would login then send messages and files back and forth with the server.

 Has anyone done that?  What libraries are you using?  Anyone have any 
 examples of performing the basic login procedure. I'd rather not start 
 from scratch.

 Cheers,
 -Joel


 
 Depends on what your requirements are. You could get away with using any
 mail server from the above alone or ssh / scp (secure shell) with 
 appropriate
 wrapping.


Looks like http://www.dsource.org/projects/transferserver/wiki may do 
this.  However it seems to have been abandoned and incomplete.  Anyone 
had any success using this lib?

-Joel
Apr 07 2008
prev sibling next sibling parent reply lurker <lurker lurker.com> writes:
i use it myself, is need and fast.

            http://prostoserver.com/

 for crypto i use

          http://www.cryptosys.net/pki/index.html -- super!!!


hope it helps.



janderson Wrote:


 Hi,
 
 I'm looking for a good network library for a project I'm considering 
 starting.  Basically I need to be able to handle multiple users who 
 would login then send messages and files back and forth with the server.
 
 Has anyone done that?  What libraries are you using?  Anyone have any 
 examples of performing the basic login procedure. I'd rather not start 
 from scratch.
 
 Cheers,
 -Joel
Apr 07 2008
parent reply janderson <askme me.com> writes:
lurker wrote:

 i use it myself, is need and fast.
 
             http://prostoserver.com/
 
  for crypto i use
 
           http://www.cryptosys.net/pki/index.html -- super!!!
 
 
 hope it helps.



Cheers I'll look into these, although I'd prefer something that's 
already been ported to D.

-Joel


 
 
 
 janderson Wrote:
 

 Hi,

 I'm looking for a good network library for a project I'm considering 
 starting.  Basically I need to be able to handle multiple users who 
 would login then send messages and files back and forth with the server.

 Has anyone done that?  What libraries are you using?  Anyone have any 
 examples of performing the basic login procedure. I'd rather not start 
 from scratch.

 Cheers,
 -Joel
Apr 07 2008
parent reply "Koroskin Denis" <2korden+dmd gmail.com> writes:
Take a look into RakNet. Great library and it's already ported to D  =

(http://team0xf.com/index.php?n=3DSite.Download)

On Tue, 08 Apr 2008 06:46:44 +0400, janderson <askme me.com> wrote:


 lurker wrote:

 i use it myself, is need and fast.
              http://prostoserver.com/
   for crypto i use
            http://www.cryptosys.net/pki/index.html -- super!!!
   hope it helps.



 Cheers I'll look into these, although I'd prefer something that's  =



 already been ported to D.

 -Joel


    janderson Wrote:


 Hi,

 I'm looking for a good network library for a project I'm considering=






  =


 starting.  Basically I need to be able to handle multiple users who =






 =


 would login then send messages and files back and forth with the  =







 server.

 Has anyone done that?  What libraries are you using?  Anyone have an=






y  =


 examples of performing the basic login procedure. I'd rather not sta=






rt  =


 from scratch.

 Cheers,
 -Joel
Apr 08 2008
parent janderson <askme me.com> writes:
Koroskin Denis wrote:

 Take a look into RakNet. Great library and it's already ported to D 
 (http://team0xf.com/index.php?n=Site.Download)


Cheers, this network lib looks great.  It will definitely be high in my 
list of considerations.

Cheers.

-Joel



 
 On Tue, 08 Apr 2008 06:46:44 +0400, janderson <askme me.com> wrote:
 

 lurker wrote:

 i use it myself, is need and fast.
              http://prostoserver.com/
   for crypto i use
            http://www.cryptosys.net/pki/index.html -- super!!!
   hope it helps.



 Cheers I'll look into these, although I'd prefer something that's 
 already been ported to D.

 -Joel


    janderson Wrote:


 Hi,

 I'm looking for a good network library for a project I'm considering 
 starting.  Basically I need to be able to handle multiple users who 
 would login then send messages and files back and forth with the 
 server.

 Has anyone done that?  What libraries are you using?  Anyone have 
 any examples of performing the basic login procedure. I'd rather not 
 start from scratch.

 Cheers,
 -Joel
Apr 08 2008
prev sibling parent Lars Ivar Igesund <larsivar igesund.net> writes:
janderson wrote:


 Hi,
 
 I'm looking for a good network library for a project I'm considering
 starting.  Basically I need to be able to handle multiple users who
 would login then send messages and files back and forth with the server.
 
 Has anyone done that?  What libraries are you using?  Anyone have any
 examples of performing the basic login procedure. I'd rather not start
 from scratch.
 
 Cheers,
 -Joel


It is not obvious to me exactly what you need, but you should look into
tango.net and Mango

http://www.dsource.org/projects/tango
http://www.dsource.org/projects/mango

-- 
Lars Ivar Igesund
blog at http://larsivi.net
DSource, #d.tango & #D: larsivi
Dancing the Tango
Apr 08 2008