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digitalmars.D - Audio time-compression (Was: On 80 columns should (not) be enough for

reply Ulrik Mikaelsson <ulrik.mikaelsson gmail.com> writes:
2011/1/30 Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com>:

 People who use screen readers often crank up the playback rate to 2x. The
 software adjusts the pitch so it doesn't sound like the Chipmunks.

 I've often wondered why DVRs don't do this (I've sent the suggestion to
 Tivo, they ignored me). I'd like the option to play the news (or other talk
 shows) at a faster rate, with pitch adjustment. I've found I can watch Tivo
 at 3x with the closed captioning on, and can almost keep up. The problem
 with DVRs at any fast forward speed is they turn the sound off! Grrrr.

 A golden opportunity missed.

 I'd also love it if youtube etc. did this. It's so boring looking at youtube
 presentations because they talk so slow. I'd love a double speed youtube
 viewing option.

 Remember I posted this in case some troll tries to patent it.


I KNEW I wasn't alone at this. My S.O. usually just rolls her eyes
when I do this. (Tip: VLC does it for at least double-speed)

I think the reason I.E. YouTube and Tivo don't do it is that AFAIU, it
is fairly CPU-consuming (FFT back and forth?) In the TiVo-case, my
guess is nobody paid for the hardware, and in the YouTube-case I doubt
neither Flash nor JavaScript will enable the performance required.
Perhaps it can be done browser-dependently with HTML5.

Now, what we need is the audio-equivalent of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NcIJXTlugc
Jan 31 2011
next sibling parent reply Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
Ulrik Mikaelsson wrote:

 2011/1/30 Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com>:

 People who use screen readers often crank up the playback rate to 2x. The
 software adjusts the pitch so it doesn't sound like the Chipmunks.

 I've often wondered why DVRs don't do this (I've sent the suggestion to
 Tivo, they ignored me). I'd like the option to play the news (or other talk
 shows) at a faster rate, with pitch adjustment. I've found I can watch Tivo
 at 3x with the closed captioning on, and can almost keep up. The problem
 with DVRs at any fast forward speed is they turn the sound off! Grrrr.

 A golden opportunity missed.

 I'd also love it if youtube etc. did this. It's so boring looking at youtube
 presentations because they talk so slow. I'd love a double speed youtube
 viewing option.

 Remember I posted this in case some troll tries to patent it.


 I KNEW I wasn't alone at this. My S.O. usually just rolls her eyes
 when I do this. (Tip: VLC does it for at least double-speed)
 
 I think the reason I.E. YouTube and Tivo don't do it is that AFAIU, it
 is fairly CPU-consuming (FFT back and forth?) In the TiVo-case, my
 guess is nobody paid for the hardware, and in the YouTube-case I doubt
 neither Flash nor JavaScript will enable the performance required.
 Perhaps it can be done browser-dependently with HTML5.


I think the problem is it either never occurred to Tivo or Youtube, or they 
don't care about it. When I shut off my Tivo service, I told them that such a 
feature would entice me to keep it. But I seriously doubt they transmitted my 
idea to the right people.



 Now, what we need is the audio-equivalent of this:
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NcIJXTlugc


That is an impressive algorithm!
Jan 31 2011
parent reply Ulrik Mikaelsson <ulrik.mikaelsson gmail.com> writes:
2011/1/31 Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com>:

 I think the reason I.E. YouTube and Tivo don't do it is that AFAIU, it
 is fairly CPU-consuming (FFT back and forth?) In the TiVo-case, my
 guess is nobody paid for the hardware, and in the YouTube-case I doubt
 neither Flash nor JavaScript will enable the performance required.
 Perhaps it can be done browser-dependently with HTML5.


 I think the problem is it either never occurred to Tivo or Youtube, or they
 don't care about it. When I shut off my Tivo service, I told them that such
 a feature would entice me to keep it. But I seriously doubt they transmitted
 my idea to the right people.


Perhaps, although I develop for STB:s at work, and I know how
amazingly price-pressed the hardware is. Seriously, it's designed to
show live HD, but the developers manual for one manufacturer, there's
a performance-warning about animated GIF:s (not kidding).

My guess is, the only FFT the box can manage is the one hard-coded in
the video-chip, which can't easily be exploited for other means.

Of course, I don't know what HW the Tivo is using, perhaps they're just lazy. :)
Jan 31 2011
parent reply Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
Ulrik Mikaelsson wrote:

 Of course, I don't know what HW the Tivo is using, perhaps they're just lazy.
:)


I thought that DSP's were programmable.
Jan 31 2011
parent reply Ulrik Mikaelsson <ulrik.mikaelsson gmail.com> writes:
I might be wrong, I hardly ever get to touch things that low-level,
unfortunately.

However, I think the DSP:s included in most STB:s are severely limited
in how much you can twist them. AFAIU, that's one quiet important
aspect of the whole HTML5 video-codec debacle. I.E. in the boxes I
work with, the entire video-processing-chain is done in one pipe-line,
separated from the CPU almost directly at the network-interface, and
color-keyed back with other graphics in the very last rendering-step.
(Much as the old Voodoo2-cards worked.)


From the economics stand-point, there's a HUGE cost-focus on them, so


every chance of removing costs from hardware is taken.  Every dollar
saved on hardware is roughly a dollar on the bottom-line, and in the
volumes STB:s sell, that's millions of dollars. Sure, software costs
might go up, but not likely by millons of dollars yearly. I.E. even if
you CAN use the DSP-components to post-process audio, I would not be
surprised to learn it hasn't got the power to do it simultaneously
with video-playback.

Again, I don't work low-level enough to tell for sure, and TiVo might
spend a lot more on the hardware than I'm used to, but hardware
limitations in this industry is a very real challenge, especially for
things like post-processing. I too would love 2X playback with working
audio though. :)

2011/1/31 Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com>:

 Ulrik Mikaelsson wrote:

 Of course, I don't know what HW the Tivo is using, perhaps they're just
 lazy. :)


 I thought that DSP's were programmable.
Jan 31 2011
parent Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
Ulrik Mikaelsson wrote:

 I might be wrong, I hardly ever get to touch things that low-level,
 unfortunately.
 
 However, I think the DSP:s included in most STB:s are severely limited
 in how much you can twist them. AFAIU, that's one quiet important
 aspect of the whole HTML5 video-codec debacle. I.E. in the boxes I
 work with, the entire video-processing-chain is done in one pipe-line,
 separated from the CPU almost directly at the network-interface, and
 color-keyed back with other graphics in the very last rendering-step.
 (Much as the old Voodoo2-cards worked.)
 

From the economics stand-point, there's a HUGE cost-focus on them, so


 every chance of removing costs from hardware is taken.  Every dollar
 saved on hardware is roughly a dollar on the bottom-line, and in the
 volumes STB:s sell, that's millions of dollars. Sure, software costs
 might go up, but not likely by millons of dollars yearly. I.E. even if
 you CAN use the DSP-components to post-process audio, I would not be
 surprised to learn it hasn't got the power to do it simultaneously
 with video-playback.
 
 Again, I don't work low-level enough to tell for sure, and TiVo might
 spend a lot more on the hardware than I'm used to, but hardware
 limitations in this industry is a very real challenge, especially for
 things like post-processing. I too would love 2X playback with working
 audio though. :)



The real money for Tivo is not the box cost, but the recurring subscription 
revenue. Even better if this idea is nontrivial to implement, as that would
give 
the first mover an exclusive.
Jan 31 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent reply "Nick Sabalausky" <a a.a> writes:
"Ulrik Mikaelsson" <ulrik.mikaelsson gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:mailman.1098.1296493288.4748.digitalmars-d puremagic.com...

 Now, what we need is the audio-equivalent of this:
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NcIJXTlugc


That's really cool, and seems so obvious in retrospect.
.
.
.
I bet it's patented.
Jan 31 2011
next sibling parent reply David Nadlinger <see klickverbot.at> writes:
On 1/31/11 10:09 PM, Nick Sabalausky wrote:

 I bet it's patented.


http://www.freepatentsonline.com/7873211.html, it seems to apply to 
video only though.

David
Jan 31 2011
parent "Nick Sabalausky" <a a.a> writes:
"David Nadlinger" <see klickverbot.at> wrote in message 
news:ii797m$13ir$1 digitalmars.com...

 On 1/31/11 10:09 PM, Nick Sabalausky wrote:

 I bet it's patented.


 http://www.freepatentsonline.com/7873211.html, it seems to apply to video 
 only though.


It would have to be limited to video, the filing date is 2009 and this was 
presented at SIGGRAPH 2007. Jesus fuck, and they even *reference* that prior 
art in the very first "Other References"!!

Gee, I wonder what douchebag owns this patent? Oh look, it's "Don't Be Evil" 
Google...Why am I not remotely surprised? (Hint: "publically traded 
corporation" together with "don't be evil" is complete fucking 
contradiction, by their very definitions. Always has been, always will be.)
Jan 31 2011
prev sibling parent reply Tomek =?UTF-8?B?U293acWEc2tp?= <just ask.me> writes:
Nick Sabalausky napisa=C5=82:


 Now, what we need is the audio-equivalent of this:
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D6NcIJXTlugc =20


=20
 That's really cool, and seems so obvious in retrospect.


There's a D implementation:

http://dsource.org/projects/seamzgood

but it's abandoned.

--=20
Tomek
Jan 31 2011
parent bearophile <bearophileHUGS lycos.com> writes:
Tomek S.:


 There's a D implementation:
 http://dsource.org/projects/seamzgood
 but it's abandoned.


And it too has a vec2 and vec3! :-)
http://dsource.org/projects/seamzgood/browser/trunk/util/geometry
That's stuff for Phobos2.

Bye,
bearophile
Jan 31 2011
prev sibling parent Bruno Medeiros <brunodomedeiros+spam com.gmail> writes:
On 31/01/2011 17:01, Ulrik Mikaelsson wrote:

 Now, what we need is the audio-equivalent of this:
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NcIJXTlugc


Damn, pretty damn impressive!

-- 
Bruno Medeiros - Software Engineer
Feb 10 2011