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digitalmars.D - Account on ARM/Debian

reply Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
I've been talking to Iain Buclaw, gdc's leader, and was surprised to 
learn he has a quite workable ARM port available. To make it 
production-ready, we should have some continuous test integration, which 
entails ssh access to an ARM/Debian account.

Is there anyone on this list who'd want to donate such an account?


Thanks,

Andrei
Oct 15 2012
next sibling parent reply Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
On 10/15/2012 10:05 AM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 I've been talking to Iain Buclaw, gdc's leader, and was surprised to learn he
 has a quite workable ARM port available. To make it production-ready, we should
 have some continuous test integration, which entails ssh access to an
ARM/Debian
 account.

 Is there anyone on this list who'd want to donate such an account?


It would be pretty cool to run this on a Raspberry Pi! Anyone up to the 
challenge to build such a system?
Oct 15 2012
next sibling parent Iain Buclaw <ibuclaw ubuntu.com> writes:
On 15 October 2012 20:31, Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> wrote:

 On 10/15/2012 10:05 AM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 I've been talking to Iain Buclaw, gdc's leader, and was surprised to learn
 he
 has a quite workable ARM port available. To make it production-ready, we
 should
 have some continuous test integration, which entails ssh access to an
 ARM/Debian
 account.

 Is there anyone on this list who'd want to donate such an account?



 It would be pretty cool to run this on a Raspberry Pi! Anyone up to the
 challenge to build such a system?


The qemu-chroot environment I've set up is Raspbian, so the compiler
should be capable of running on, and producing applications for the
Raspberry Pi devices.


Regards,
-- 
Iain Buclaw

*(p < e ? p++ : p) = (c & 0x0f) + '0';
Oct 15 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent reply 1100110 <0b1100110 gmail.com> writes:
On Mon, 15 Oct 2012 14:31:58 -0500, Walter Bright  
<newshound2 digitalmars.com> wrote:


 On 10/15/2012 10:05 AM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 I've been talking to Iain Buclaw, gdc's leader, and was surprised to  
 learn he
 has a quite workable ARM port available. To make it production-ready,  
 we should
 have some continuous test integration, which entails ssh access to an  
 ARM/Debian
 account.

 Is there anyone on this list who'd want to donate such an account?


 It would be pretty cool to run this on a Raspberry Pi! Anyone up to the  
 challenge to build such a system?


I've been looking for an excuse to buy a RPi.

I have a static IP and domain to donate as well.


If no one else already has one and is willing, I'll do it.
I'm already familiar with compiling GDC.
-- 
Using Opera's revolutionary email client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
Oct 15 2012
next sibling parent reply Brad Roberts <braddr slice-2.puremagic.com> writes:
On Mon, 15 Oct 2012, 1100110 wrote:


 On Mon, 15 Oct 2012 14:31:58 -0500, Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com>
 wrote:
 

 On 10/15/2012 10:05 AM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 I've been talking to Iain Buclaw, gdc's leader, and was surprised to learn
 he
 has a quite workable ARM port available. To make it production-ready, we
 should
 have some continuous test integration, which entails ssh access to an
 ARM/Debian
 account.
 
 Is there anyone on this list who'd want to donate such an account?


 
 It would be pretty cool to run this on a Raspberry Pi! Anyone up to the
 challenge to build such a system?
 


 I've been looking for an excuse to buy a RPi.
 
 I have a static IP and domain to donate as well.
 
 
 If no one else already has one and is willing, I'll do it.
 I'm already familiar with compiling GDC.


I wouldn't go out and buy one just for this.  The raspberry's are pretty 
underpowered anyway.

I've got a guru plug as well as a qemu environment setup (very easy to 
do), which are both available.  But honestly, cross-compiling from a fast 
x86 box is _tons_ faster than building on-device.  I don't know how well 
gcc is setup for cross-testing though.  That's always... tricky.

Later,
Brad
Oct 15 2012
next sibling parent 1100110 <0b1100110 gmail.com> writes:
On Mon, 15 Oct 2012 19:39:21 -0500, Brad Roberts  
<braddr slice-2.puremagic.com> wrote:


 On Mon, 15 Oct 2012, 1100110 wrote:


 On Mon, 15 Oct 2012 14:31:58 -0500, Walter Bright  
 <newshound2 digitalmars.com>
 wrote:


 On 10/15/2012 10:05 AM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 I've been talking to Iain Buclaw, gdc's leader, and was surprised  




 to learn

 he
 has a quite workable ARM port available. To make it  




 production-ready, we

 should
 have some continuous test integration, which entails ssh access to  




 an

 ARM/Debian
 account.

 Is there anyone on this list who'd want to donate such an account?


 It would be pretty cool to run this on a Raspberry Pi! Anyone up to  


 the

 challenge to build such a system?


 I've been looking for an excuse to buy a RPi.

 I have a static IP and domain to donate as well.


 If no one else already has one and is willing, I'll do it.
 I'm already familiar with compiling GDC.


 I wouldn't go out and buy one just for this.  The raspberry's are pretty
 underpowered anyway.

 I've got a guru plug as well as a qemu environment setup (very easy to
 do), which are both available.  But honestly, cross-compiling from a fast
 x86 box is _tons_ faster than building on-device.  I don't know how well
 gcc is setup for cross-testing though.  That's always... tricky.

 Later,
 Brad


Of course, but ssh access allows copying the files over and requires  
either complicated network setup, or static IP.
Which is why I mentioned it.  Either I or someone else could have a  
cross-compiler which simply copies the results to the RPi to be tested.
;)


It would seem to me to be a Good Idea(tm) to have actual hardware to test  
it.
Plus It's just a fun project.  I could host a simple website with it using  
vibe(I should really rebuild GDC to check that vibe bug report...) in  
order to have an actual "production" test project.

-- 
Using Opera's revolutionary email client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
Oct 15 2012
prev sibling parent reply Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
On 10/15/2012 5:39 PM, Brad Roberts wrote:

 I wouldn't go out and buy one just for this.  The raspberry's are pretty
 underpowered anyway.


They're so cheap, it's no big deal even if they're a total loss.
Oct 15 2012
parent reply Alix Pexton <alix.DOT.pexton gmail.DOT.com> writes:
On 16/10/2012 02:06, Walter Bright wrote:

 On 10/15/2012 5:39 PM, Brad Roberts wrote:

 I wouldn't go out and buy one just for this.  The raspberry's are pretty
 underpowered anyway.


 They're so cheap, it's no big deal even if they're a total loss.


I have a RasPi already!

I might be able to get it connected up to my brother's static ip and 
have it sitting headless on top of the router, but I'll have to ask him 
first of course!

I'll let you know what he says, and start asking questions about how to 
set it up if he agrees ^^

A...
Oct 16 2012
parent reply Alix Pexton <alix.DOT.pexton gmail.DOT.com> writes:
On 16/10/2012 10:22, Alix Pexton wrote:

 On 16/10/2012 02:06, Walter Bright wrote:

 On 10/15/2012 5:39 PM, Brad Roberts wrote:

 I wouldn't go out and buy one just for this.  The raspberry's are pretty
 underpowered anyway.


 They're so cheap, it's no big deal even if they're a total loss.


 I have a RasPi already!

 I might be able to get it connected up to my brother's static ip and
 have it sitting headless on top of the router, but I'll have to ask him
 first of course!

 I'll let you know what he says, and start asking questions about how to
 set it up if he agrees ^^

 A...


He says OK!

Is just SSH enough for you to work with or do you need any other ports open?

The regular port numbers for some things are not available though (80, 
443, 20, 21) but I'm sure that won't be a problem ^^

A...
Oct 16 2012
parent reply Iain Buclaw <ibuclaw ubuntu.com> writes:
On 16 October 2012 10:42, Alix Pexton <alix.DOT.pexton gmail.dot.com> wrote:

 On 16/10/2012 10:22, Alix Pexton wrote:

 On 16/10/2012 02:06, Walter Bright wrote:

 On 10/15/2012 5:39 PM, Brad Roberts wrote:

 I wouldn't go out and buy one just for this.  The raspberry's are pretty
 underpowered anyway.



 They're so cheap, it's no big deal even if they're a total loss.


 I have a RasPi already!

 I might be able to get it connected up to my brother's static ip and
 have it sitting headless on top of the router, but I'll have to ask him
 first of course!

 I'll let you know what he says, and start asking questions about how to
 set it up if he agrees ^^

 A...



 He says OK!

 Is just SSH enough for you to work with or do you need any other ports open?

 The regular port numbers for some things are not available though (80, 443,
 20, 21) but I'm sure that won't be a problem ^^

 A...


SSH will be fine, thanks. :-)

Do you need a static IP set on the firewall to allow connections in?


-- 
Iain Buclaw

*(p < e ? p++ : p) = (c & 0x0f) + '0';
Oct 16 2012
parent reply Alix Pexton <alix.DOT.pexton gmail.DOT.com> writes:
On 16/10/2012 11:48, Iain Buclaw wrote:

 On 16 October 2012 10:42, Alix Pexton <alix.DOT.pexton gmail.dot.com> wrote:

 On 16/10/2012 10:22, Alix Pexton wrote:

 On 16/10/2012 02:06, Walter Bright wrote:

 On 10/15/2012 5:39 PM, Brad Roberts wrote:

 I wouldn't go out and buy one just for this.  The raspberry's are pretty
 underpowered anyway.



 They're so cheap, it's no big deal even if they're a total loss.


 I have a RasPi already!

 I might be able to get it connected up to my brother's static ip and
 have it sitting headless on top of the router, but I'll have to ask him
 first of course!

 I'll let you know what he says, and start asking questions about how to
 set it up if he agrees ^^

 A...



 He says OK!

 Is just SSH enough for you to work with or do you need any other ports open?

 The regular port numbers for some things are not available though (80, 443,
 20, 21) but I'm sure that won't be a problem ^^

 A...


 SSH will be fine, thanks. :-)

 Do you need a static IP set on the firewall to allow connections in?


I don't think so, will have to throw that one over to my brother to be 
sure ^^

My network-admin-fu is somewhat lacking ><

A...
Oct 16 2012
parent reply Alix Pexton <alix.DOT.pexton gmail.DOT.com> writes:
On 16/10/2012 12:11, Alix Pexton wrote:

 On 16/10/2012 11:48, Iain Buclaw wrote:

 Do you need a static IP set on the firewall to allow connections in?


 I don't think so, will have to throw that one over to my brother to be
 sure ^^



Make that a maybe!

After being on-line for less than 24 hours, the poor RasPi was being 
penetration tested from IPs as far apart as Korea and Sussex!

I'm still willing to let my RasPi be used for this fine cause, but my 
Brother wants to investigate why his IP has gotten interest from foreign 
powers, and reconfigure the firewall before it gets reconnected.

Aside from Ian, are there any other GDC/ARM developers (who might want 
access)? I'm considering making individual accounts for each user rather 
than just giving out the password to the "pi" user.

A...
Oct 18 2012
next sibling parent reply Joseph Rushton Wakeling <joseph.wakeling webdrake.net> writes:
On 10/18/2012 03:18 PM, Alix Pexton wrote:

 I'm considering making individual accounts for each user rather than just
giving
 out the password to the "pi" user.


TBH that "pi" account seems like a massive security vulnerability for any RasPi 
that is open to remote login.  Yes, you can change the password, but I'd be 
inclined to remove it and set up an administrator account with a completely 
different name ...
Oct 18 2012
next sibling parent Alix Pexton <alix.DOT.pexton gmail.DOT.com> writes:
On 18/10/2012 14:32, Joseph Rushton Wakeling wrote:

 On 10/18/2012 03:18 PM, Alix Pexton wrote:

 I'm considering making individual accounts for each user rather than
 just giving
 out the password to the "pi" user.


 TBH that "pi" account seems like a massive security vulnerability for
 any RasPi that is open to remote login.  Yes, you can change the
 password, but I'd be inclined to remove it and set up an administrator
 account with a completely different name ...


Any advice/instruction (the clearer the better) on how to setup my RasPi 
so that it is more secure are very welcome ^^

I'm also looking for a smallish USB hard drive to attach as a swap-drive 
so that there is scope to compile GDC, everything I have seen so far 
costs more than the RasPi did and does not fit my definition of "smallish".

A...
Oct 18 2012
prev sibling parent "jerro" <a a.com> writes:
On Thursday, 18 October 2012 at 13:33:02 UTC, Joseph Rushton 
Wakeling wrote:

 On 10/18/2012 03:18 PM, Alix Pexton wrote:

 I'm considering making individual accounts for each user 
 rather than just giving
 out the password to the "pi" user.


 TBH that "pi" account seems like a massive security 
 vulnerability for any RasPi that is open to remote login.  Yes, 
 you can change the password, but I'd be inclined to remove it 
 and set up an administrator account with a completely different 
 name ...


You could also add an AllowUsers setting to /etc/ssh/sshd_config 
and not include the pi user in it.
Oct 18 2012
prev sibling parent Iain Buclaw <ibuclaw ubuntu.com> writes:
On 18 October 2012 14:18, Alix Pexton <alix.DOT.pexton gmail.dot.com> wrote:

 On 16/10/2012 12:11, Alix Pexton wrote:

 On 16/10/2012 11:48, Iain Buclaw wrote:

 Do you need a static IP set on the firewall to allow connections in?


 I don't think so, will have to throw that one over to my brother to be
 sure ^^




 Make that a maybe!

 After being on-line for less than 24 hours, the poor RasPi was being
 penetration tested from IPs as far apart as Korea and Sussex!


I'm in Sussex, it was probably me. :-p


-- 
Iain Buclaw

*(p < e ? p++ : p) = (c & 0x0f) + '0';
Oct 18 2012
prev sibling parent reply Iain Buclaw <ibuclaw ubuntu.com> writes:
On 16 October 2012 01:16, 1100110 <0b1100110 gmail.com> wrote:

 On Mon, 15 Oct 2012 14:31:58 -0500, Walter Bright
 <newshound2 digitalmars.com> wrote:


 On 10/15/2012 10:05 AM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 I've been talking to Iain Buclaw, gdc's leader, and was surprised to
 learn he
 has a quite workable ARM port available. To make it production-ready, we
 should
 have some continuous test integration, which entails ssh access to an
 ARM/Debian
 account.

 Is there anyone on this list who'd want to donate such an account?



 It would be pretty cool to run this on a Raspberry Pi! Anyone up to the
 challenge to build such a system?


 I've been looking for an excuse to buy a RPi.

 I have a static IP and domain to donate as well.


 If no one else already has one and is willing, I'll do it.
 I'm already familiar with compiling GDC.
 --
 Using Opera's revolutionary email client: http://www.opera.com/mail/


Cool!  There's a pull request open at the moment that you'll need to
patch (jpf just needs to amend two items and it'll be committed :)

https://github.com/D-Programming-GDC/GDC/pull/30


-- 
Iain Buclaw

*(p < e ? p++ : p) = (c & 0x0f) + '0';
Oct 15 2012
parent 1100110 <0b1100110 gmail.com> writes:
On Mon, 15 Oct 2012 19:33:06 -0500, Iain Buclaw <ibuclaw ubuntu.com> wrote:


 On 16 October 2012 01:16, 1100110 <0b1100110 gmail.com> wrote:

 On Mon, 15 Oct 2012 14:31:58 -0500, Walter Bright
 <newshound2 digitalmars.com> wrote:


 On 10/15/2012 10:05 AM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 I've been talking to Iain Buclaw, gdc's leader, and was surprised to
 learn he
 has a quite workable ARM port available. To make it production-ready,  
 we
 should
 have some continuous test integration, which entails ssh access to an
 ARM/Debian
 account.

 Is there anyone on this list who'd want to donate such an account?



 It would be pretty cool to run this on a Raspberry Pi! Anyone up to the
 challenge to build such a system?


 I've been looking for an excuse to buy a RPi.

 I have a static IP and domain to donate as well.


 If no one else already has one and is willing, I'll do it.
 I'm already familiar with compiling GDC.
 --
 Using Opera's revolutionary email client: http://www.opera.com/mail/


 Cool!  There's a pull request open at the moment that you'll need to
 patch (jpf just needs to amend two items and it'll be committed :)

 https://github.com/D-Programming-GDC/GDC/pull/30


I'll need to receive the Pi first! =0

I hear it might have a long waiting list...
Time to do some shopping! =D

-- 
Shut up, Opera.
Oct 15 2012
prev sibling parent reply "Regan Heath" <regan netmail.co.nz> writes:
On Mon, 15 Oct 2012 20:31:58 +0100, Walter Bright  
<newshound2 digitalmars.com> wrote:


 On 10/15/2012 10:05 AM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 I've been talking to Iain Buclaw, gdc's leader, and was surprised to  
 learn he
 has a quite workable ARM port available. To make it production-ready,  
 we should
 have some continuous test integration, which entails ssh access to an  
 ARM/Debian
 account.

 Is there anyone on this list who'd want to donate such an account?


 It would be pretty cool to run this on a Raspberry Pi! Anyone up to the  
 challenge to build such a system?


My Pi arrives on the 22nd and I'd like to give this a go.

Is it just me, or does the Raspberry Pi represent an opportunity for D to  
capture a new generation of new users/programmers.  I would think that  
making D compile for ARM would be a fairly high priority in that case?

I was also thinking, wouldn't it be neat to write an operating system for  
the Pi in in D..  man I wish there were more hours in a day!

R

-- 
Using Opera's revolutionary email client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
Oct 16 2012
parent reply Iain Buclaw <ibuclaw ubuntu.com> writes:
On 16 October 2012 13:00, Regan Heath <regan netmail.co.nz> wrote:

 On Mon, 15 Oct 2012 20:31:58 +0100, Walter Bright
 <newshound2 digitalmars.com> wrote:


 On 10/15/2012 10:05 AM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 I've been talking to Iain Buclaw, gdc's leader, and was surprised to
 learn he
 has a quite workable ARM port available. To make it production-ready, we
 should
 have some continuous test integration, which entails ssh access to an
 ARM/Debian
 account.

 Is there anyone on this list who'd want to donate such an account?



 It would be pretty cool to run this on a Raspberry Pi! Anyone up to the
 challenge to build such a system?



 My Pi arrives on the 22nd and I'd like to give this a go.

 Is it just me, or does the Raspberry Pi represent an opportunity for D to
 capture a new generation of new users/programmers.  I would think that
 making D compile for ARM would be a fairly high priority in that case?

 I was also thinking, wouldn't it be neat to write an operating system for
 the Pi in in D..  man I wish there were more hours in a day!


I don't think we're at that stage yet.  What would be appreciated
would be for testers to report back on any codegen issues.   I should
be able to make GDC ARM binaries available for download.

-- 
Iain Buclaw

*(p < e ? p++ : p) = (c & 0x0f) + '0';
Oct 16 2012
next sibling parent reply Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
On 10/16/2012 7:04 AM, Iain Buclaw wrote:

 I was also thinking, wouldn't it be neat to write an operating system for
 the Pi in in D..  man I wish there were more hours in a day!


 I don't think we're at that stage yet.  What would be appreciated
 would be for testers to report back on any codegen issues.   I should
 be able to make GDC ARM binaries available for download.


Once you guys get this up on the Rasp, it would be great to write up a brief 
"cookbook" page on how to get a D program running on it.
Oct 16 2012
parent Johannes Pfau <nospam example.com> writes:
Am Tue, 16 Oct 2012 08:17:36 -0700
schrieb Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com>:


 
 Once you guys get this up on the Rasp, it would be great to write up
 a brief "cookbook" page on how to get a D program running on it.


http://gdcproject.org/wiki/Raspberry%20Pi
http://gdcproject.org/wiki/Raspberry%20Pi/build/Raspbian%28Hardfloat%29

I think we could provide compiler binaries instead which should make
the whole process a lot easier. And a simple "Hello World" tutorial
could be added as well.
Oct 17 2012
prev sibling parent reply "mist" <none none.none> writes:
"not at that stage" means there are some probability-based issues 
with codegen or some major blocker that prevents from even 
trying? I'd really like to try some kind of proof-of-concept 
GDC/ARM kernel-level stuff.


 I don't think we're at that stage yet.  What would be 
 appreciated
 would be for testers to report back on any codegen issues.   I 
 should
 be able to make GDC ARM binaries available for download.
Oct 17 2012
parent Johannes Pfau <nospam example.com> writes:
Am Wed, 17 Oct 2012 13:56:58 +0200
schrieb "mist" <none none.none>:


 "not at that stage" means there are some probability-based issues 
 with codegen or some major blocker that prevents from even 
 trying? I'd really like to try some kind of proof-of-concept 
 GDC/ARM kernel-level stuff.
 


Issue 120 was the biggest blocker for now. The fix still isn't merged
yet (my fault, I'll try to finish it this week). All other bugs which
happen on ARM, but not on x86(32 bit) are filed in the gdc bug
tracker( http://gdcproject.org/bugzilla/buglist.cgi?list_id=78&resolution=---&query_format=advanced&rep_platform=ARM&bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&bug_status=RESOLVED&bug_status=VERIFIED&component=gdc&product=GDC
).
Some are just bugs in the compiler test suite.


guess it'll take some time till this is finished, but usually it
shouldn't cause problems.


But all in all, the compiler is in a good shape. Phobos / Druntime are
completely untested though (we can't run the unittests with GDC right
now, IIRC)
Oct 17 2012
prev sibling parent reply "David Nadlinger" <see klickverbot.at> writes:
On Monday, 15 October 2012 at 17:05:00 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
wrote:

 I've been talking to Iain Buclaw, gdc's leader, and was 
 surprised to learn he has a quite workable ARM port available. 
 To make it production-ready, we should have some continuous 
 test integration, which entails ssh access to an ARM/Debian 
 account.

 Is there anyone on this list who'd want to donate such an 
 account?


I recently got an ODROID-X (4x1.4 GHz Cortex A9, 1GB RAM) for a 
very similar purpose, i.e. running the LDC test suite on ARM. 
It's fast enough that working on compiler development without 
resorting to cross-compiling is actually somewhat fun, but I 
didn't get around to set it up it yet – we are cleaning things 
up for an actual x86/x86_64 release right now, as some distros 
seem to decisively prefer packaging releases instead of Git 
revisions.

It would likely be always on, albeit behind a somewhat broken 
router, so you'd have to use a VPN for outside access. Also, I'm 
not quite sure how the tiny box would handle the pressure from 
both GDC and LDC.

Anyway, Iain, if the Raspberry PI offers don't work out, feel 
free to give me a shout.

David
Oct 17 2012
parent reply Joseph Rushton Wakeling <joseph.wakeling webdrake.net> writes:
On 10/17/2012 05:45 PM, David Nadlinger wrote:

 I recently got an ODROID-X (4x1.4 GHz Cortex A9, 1GB RAM) for a very similar
 purpose, i.e. running the LDC test suite on ARM. It's fast enough that working
 on compiler development without resorting to cross-compiling is actually
 somewhat fun, but I didn't get around to set it up it yet – we are cleaning
 things up for an actual x86/x86_64 release right now, as some distros seem to
 decisively prefer packaging releases instead of Git revisions.


Just to note, even if you're building from source it's handy to have a "stable 
release" branch alongside the latest dev.
Oct 17 2012
next sibling parent reply "David Nadlinger" <see klickverbot.at> writes:
On Wednesday, 17 October 2012 at 16:24:44 UTC, Joseph Rushton 
Wakeling wrote:

 Just to note, even if you're building from source it's handy to 
 have a "stable release" branch alongside the latest dev.


Well, that depends on your definition of stable. LDC Git master 
is supposed always pass the CI tests, i.e. the DMD, druntime and 
Phobos test suites.

A possible extension of that would be to have a separate 
»stable« Git branch which is automatically advanced along with 
master by the CI system whenever a given revision passes all the 
tests. If somebody wants to set up a system like this, I'd be 
happy to officially adopt it.

But in my experience, anything more than that, i.e. declaring 
revisions stable based on criteria which can't be evaluated by an 
automatic test suite, is not worth it, at least for smallish 
projects like LDC. Judging whether a given state is stable by 
hand is notoriously hard to get right, and the reason we have 
beta phases before releases, etc.

David
Oct 17 2012
parent Joseph Rushton Wakeling <joseph.wakeling webdrake.net> writes:
On 10/17/2012 06:37 PM, David Nadlinger wrote:

 Well, that depends on your definition of stable. LDC Git master is supposed
 always pass the CI tests, i.e. the DMD, druntime and Phobos test suites.


Which would explain my (limited, as I haven't been doing any development 
recently) experience of it seeming very stable and effective when built (and 
rebuilt) from git sources. :-)

Have any optimization improvements landed recently?  It really seems like since 
my last email on the subject, the speed of executables has improved to be about 
the same as GDC.


 A possible extension of that would be to have a separate »stable« Git branch
 which is automatically advanced along with master by the CI system whenever a
 given revision passes all the tests. If somebody wants to set up a system like
 this, I'd be happy to officially adopt it.


That's not what I was really thinking about -- I trust you and the other LDC 
devs to make sure things pass all the automated tests before merging into
master.


 But in my experience, anything more than that, i.e. declaring revisions stable
 based on criteria which can't be evaluated by an automatic test suite, is not
 worth it, at least for smallish projects like LDC. Judging whether a given
state
 is stable by hand is notoriously hard to get right, and the reason we have beta
 phases before releases, etc.


What I had in mind was that you might define a "stable" branch which is updated 
according to certain new-feature milestones, and which in the interim between 
those milestones only receives bugfixes, not new features.

I guess the benefits of doing this depend on the extent to which you have a 
well-defined roadmap which would let you define a "milestone", though it might 
be possible to do it on the basis of the frontend/druntime/phobos version.

It probably seems not-worth-doing unless you are making official releases 
anyway, but from my point of view as a "consumer" of LDC it feels like a nice 
option to be able to have a branch that is updated more slowly -- i.e. with 
material that isn't just the latest patches, but that has been around for a 
while so that the devs have had time to spot any holes.
Oct 18 2012
prev sibling parent "David Nadlinger" <see klickverbot.at> writes:
On Wednesday, 17 October 2012 at 16:24:44 UTC, Joseph Rushton 
Wakeling wrote:

 Just to note, even if you're building from source it's handy to 
 have a "stable release" branch alongside the latest dev.


Well, that depends on your definition of stable. LDC Git master 
is supposed always pass the CI tests, i.e. the DMD, druntime and 
Phobos test suites.

A possible extension of that would be to have a separate 
»stable« Git branch which is automatically advanced along with 
master by the CI system whenever a given revision passes all the 
tests. If somebody wants to set up a system like this, I'd be 
happy to officially adopt it.

But in my experience, anything more than that, i.e. declaring 
revisions stable based on criteria which can't be evaluated by an 
automatic test suite, is not worth it, at least for smallish 
projects like LDC. Judging whether a given state is stable by 
hand is notoriously hard to get right, and the reason we have 
beta phases before releases, etc.

David
Oct 17 2012