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digitalmars.D - BCD XML 2 D (Hi Gregor)

reply "BLS" <lietz wanadoo.fr> writes:
Hi ,
A few month ago I am playing with the idea to create an Java2XML Tool in
order to use XML as intermediate language to translate Java into D. I found
an allready existing tool, but it only supports Java 1.3 and the generated
XML was not well formed. Anyway, Using ANTLR and the existing Java 1.5
Grammar I should be able to create a full working Java 1.5Parser . This
Parser will further enable me to create adequate XML representations....
XML to D ! At this point I am a little bit helpless and unexperienced, so I
would like to ask you, or somebody else of course , for advice, hints,links,
in other words help.

Bjoern
Jun 02 2006
next sibling parent reply Lars Ivar Igesund <larsivar igesund.net> writes:
BLS wrote:


 Hi ,
 A few month ago I am playing with the idea to create an Java2XML Tool in
 order to use XML as intermediate language to translate Java into D. I
 found an allready existing tool, but it only supports Java 1.3 and the
 generated XML was not well formed. Anyway, Using ANTLR and the existing
 Java 1.5 Grammar I should be able to create a full working Java 1.5Parser
 . This Parser will further enable me to create adequate XML
 representations.... XML to D ! At this point I am a little bit helpless
 and unexperienced, so I would like to ask you, or somebody else of course
 , for advice, hints,links, in other words help.
 
 Bjoern


Hmm, I would guess that gcj creates much the same GCCXML that Gregor use for
his C/C++ header conversions, so maybe one possibility would be to build
further on that?

-- 
Lars Ivar Igesund
blog at http://larsivi.net
DSource & #D: larsivi
Jun 02 2006
next sibling parent "BLS" <lietz wanadoo.fr> writes:
Thanks Lars,
I will try to figure out what is possible. But I still prefer using ANTLR
because my bread and butter OS is M$. (and because I would like to translate
ANTLR, written in Java btw. ,into D)
Bjoern
Jun 02 2006
prev sibling parent reply Gregor Richards <Richards codu.org> writes:
Lars Ivar Igesund wrote:

 BLS wrote:
 
 

Hi ,
A few month ago I am playing with the idea to create an Java2XML Tool in
order to use XML as intermediate language to translate Java into D. I
found an allready existing tool, but it only supports Java 1.3 and the
generated XML was not well formed. Anyway, Using ANTLR and the existing
Java 1.5 Grammar I should be able to create a full working Java 1.5Parser
. This Parser will further enable me to create adequate XML
representations.... XML to D ! At this point I am a little bit helpless
and unexperienced, so I would like to ask you, or somebody else of course
, for advice, hints,links, in other words help.

Bjoern


 
 
 Hmm, I would guess that gcj creates much the same GCCXML that Gregor use for
 his C/C++ header conversions, so maybe one possibility would be to build
 further on that?
 


No, GCCXML is sadly only an extension to the C++ parser.

  - Gregor Richards
Jun 02 2006
parent reply "BLS" <lietz wanadoo.fr> writes:
Hi, Gregor,


 No, GCCXML is sadly only an extension to the C++ parser.

   - Gregor Richards


Let us expect  for a moment that we allready have this  Java2XML Tool...
then the question is :
Is your XML2D Tool slick/flexible  enough (in the good old OOP sense) to
generate usefull D code ?

I am sorry about asking this question, but DSource is again not available.
I am interested in a Java2D translator because it will boost all
DWT/JFACE/DRAW2D efforts even if some manual work is still nessesary.
thanks in advance,
Bjoern
Jun 02 2006
parent Gregor Richards <Richards codu.org> writes:
BLS wrote:

 Hi, Gregor,
 
 

No, GCCXML is sadly only an extension to the C++ parser.

  - Gregor Richards


 
 
 Let us expect  for a moment that we allready have this  Java2XML Tool...
 then the question is :
 Is your XML2D Tool slick/flexible  enough (in the good old OOP sense) to
 generate usefull D code ?
 
 I am sorry about asking this question, but DSource is again not available.
 I am interested in a Java2D translator because it will boost all
 DWT/JFACE/DRAW2D efforts even if some manual work is still nessesary.
 thanks in advance,
 Bjoern
 
 
 


Unfortunately, it's actually very tied to GCCXML's output format, which 
is a bit skrewy and therefore probably quite different from the XML 
you're generating.  It would be possible, but not useful, to make your 
XML-generator generate similar results, but bcd.gen makes bindings, not 
ports, so it wouldn't help much :)

  - Gregor Richards
Jun 02 2006
prev sibling parent reply Gregor Richards <Richards codu.org> writes:
BLS wrote:

 Hi ,
 A few month ago I am playing with the idea to create an Java2XML Tool in
 order to use XML as intermediate language to translate Java into D. I found
 an allready existing tool, but it only supports Java 1.3 and the generated
 XML was not well formed. Anyway, Using ANTLR and the existing Java 1.5
 Grammar I should be able to create a full working Java 1.5Parser . This
 Parser will further enable me to create adequate XML representations....
 XML to D ! At this point I am a little bit helpless and unexperienced, so I
 would like to ask you, or somebody else of course , for advice, hints,links,
 in other words help.
 
 Bjoern
 
 


Honestly, I don't think I could help you much from a high-level view. 
With specifics, maybe, but since you're making a porter and I'm making a 
binder, they're actually quite different.  You won't have to mess with 
gobetween functions and the ilk, but I don't have to mess with any real 
code.

Most features of Java are supported by D in a somewhat direct fashion, 
so I suspect that many parts of the XML->D translation will be somewhat 
trivial.  Just write parser functions for each type of XML node that 
outputs the appropriate D code, and since the structure is fairly 
similar, much of it will probably work.

But like I said, our projects, while they seem similar, are actually 
fundamentally different (porting vs binding), so I'm not sure how much 
help I can be.

  - Gregor Richards

PS: Best advice: Just dive in and do it ^^
Jun 02 2006
next sibling parent reply Rémy Mouëza <Rémy_member pathlink.com> writes:
BLS wrote:

 Hi ,
 A few month ago I am playing with the idea to create an Java2XML Tool in
 order to use XML as intermediate language to translate Java into D. I found
 an allready existing tool, but it only supports Java 1.3 and the generated
 XML was not well formed. Anyway, Using ANTLR and the existing Java 1.5
 Grammar I should be able to create a full working Java 1.5Parser . This
 Parser will further enable me to create adequate XML representations....
 XML to D ! At this point I am a little bit helpless and unexperienced, so I
 would like to ask you, or somebody else of course , for advice, hints,links,
 in other words help.
 
 Bjoern
 
 




Last year, I have made a tool similar to Gregor's bcd. It was using GCCXML and
Python. I even ported part of the FLTK 1.5 library. I wasn't really satisfied
and was planning to make my own C++ header parser to do it again (some day),
using D this time but Gregor has been faster. 
Last november, I also used Peri Hankey's Language machine
(http://languagemachine.sf.net) to make a kind of C++ to D translator. I used
Peri D to D translator ( a proof of concept ) based on the same following idea:


Most features of Java are supported by D in a somewhat direct fashion, 
so I suspect that many parts of the XML->D translation will be somewhat 
trivial.  Just write parser functions for each type of XML node that 
outputs the appropriate D code, and since the structure is fairly 
similar, much of it will probably work.


I mean, lots of C++ features are supported by D in a simpler and cleaner
fashion. Others are more difficult to translate. I just made some modifications
througout Peri's original translator front end to fool the back end. 
The parser could translate trivial code quite correctly but was making more
errors with longer code. It was convenient for speeding the rewrite of some C++
code into D. 
Yet, I have some trouble with the language machine: I'm so used to think
grammars as trees that I can't manage to start a binder from scratch using it.

Gregor said:

But like I said, our projects, while they seem similar, are actually 
fundamentally different (porting vs binding), so I'm not sure how much 
help I can be.

  - Gregor Richards


From what I've experienced, I'd say :
- binding is relatively simpler than porting: there is less code to analyse but
this prevent to use some features or make these features difficult to use (
templates, cross-language porlymorphism, how to use D mixins in C++ ? ...).
- porting, if successfully achieved, don't limit the D programmer: all D
features can be used with the ported code, but there is more analysis involved,
some features have no direct equivalent in the target language ( Java
decorators, although we can do it using templates ) and there is no direct match
with the language library.

I was disappointed with my C++ to D translator because although it produced
syntactically correct code, the semantic was not translated at all. There had to
be a hand rewrite to make it work correctly. I didn't get any further. 

Peri Hankeys made a Java to D translator, modifying his D to D front end to make
it handle Java syntax. The main point now is to manage to match Java's library
with phobos or any runtime library. 
If your mind is not tied to grammar trees as mine, you may wish to join Peri's
project since the translation step is already done. Some Java expertise I don't
have is needed. The language machine is simpler to use than ANTLR, smaller ( but
you may not bother ), and is implemented in D ( actually gdc but dmd ports have
been reported ).

Gregor advice is fine too. 

PS: Best advice: Just dive in and do it ^^


It would be wise to merge our efforts toward common goals, but we still should
have choice in the tool we use. Moreover, A Java to XML tool could be used by
people outside the D community.
Jun 02 2006
next sibling parent "BLS" <lietz wanadoo.fr> writes:
Hi Remy,
you wrote :

 It would be wise to merge our efforts toward common goals, but we still


should

 have choice in the tool we use


A bit OFF TOPIC but this is one of the reasons why I am working on a
Client/Server IDE which should enable us to work together in real time....

the language machine (simpler ?)
Maybe because of the several available examples and documents  ANTLR.
respectivre Terrence offers it  is (at least for me) easier to handle ANTLR
than the Language Machine.  So I will give it a try.. let us
see..................

Many Thanks for your comments, Remy.
Bjoern.






"Rémy Mouëza" <Rémy_member pathlink.com> schreef in bericht
news:e5q0tj$1p21$1 digitaldaemon.com...

BLS wrote:

 Hi ,
 A few month ago I am playing with the idea to create an Java2XML Tool






in

 order to use XML as intermediate language to translate Java into D. I






found

 an allready existing tool, but it only supports Java 1.3 and the






generated

 XML was not well formed. Anyway, Using ANTLR and the existing Java 1.5
 Grammar I should be able to create a full working Java 1.5Parser . This
 Parser will further enable me to create adequate XML






representations....

 XML to D ! At this point I am a little bit helpless and unexperienced,






so I

 would like to ask you, or somebody else of course , for advice,






hints,links,

 in other words help.

 Bjoern




 Last year, I have made a tool similar to Gregor's bcd. It was using GCCXML


and

 Python. I even ported part of the FLTK 1.5 library. I wasn't really


satisfied

 and was planning to make my own C++ header parser to do it again (some


day),

 using D this time but Gregor has been faster.
 Last november, I also used Peri Hankey's Language machine
 (http://languagemachine.sf.net) to make a kind of C++ to D translator. I


used

 Peri D to D translator ( a proof of concept ) based on the same following


idea:

Most features of Java are supported by D in a somewhat direct fashion,
so I suspect that many parts of the XML->D translation will be somewhat
trivial.  Just write parser functions for each type of XML node that
outputs the appropriate D code, and since the structure is fairly
similar, much of it will probably work.


 I mean, lots of C++ features are supported by D in a simpler and cleaner
 fashion. Others are more difficult to translate. I just made some


modifications

 througout Peri's original translator front end to fool the back end.
 The parser could translate trivial code quite correctly but was making


more

 errors with longer code. It was convenient for speeding the rewrite of


some C++

 code into D.
 Yet, I have some trouble with the language machine: I'm so used to think
 grammars as trees that I can't manage to start a binder from scratch using


it.

 Gregor said:

But like I said, our projects, while they seem similar, are actually
fundamentally different (porting vs binding), so I'm not sure how much
help I can be.

  - Gregor Richards


 From what I've experienced, I'd say :
 - binding is relatively simpler than porting: there is less code to


analyse but

 this prevent to use some features or make these features difficult to use


(

 templates, cross-language porlymorphism, how to use D mixins in C++ ?


...).

 - porting, if successfully achieved, don't limit the D programmer: all D
 features can be used with the ported code, but there is more analysis


involved,

 some features have no direct equivalent in the target language ( Java
 decorators, although we can do it using templates ) and there is no direct


match

 with the language library.

 I was disappointed with my C++ to D translator because although it


produced

 syntactically correct code, the semantic was not translated at all. There


had to

 be a hand rewrite to make it work correctly. I didn't get any further.

 Peri Hankeys made a Java to D translator, modifying his D to D front end


to make

 it handle Java syntax. The main point now is to manage to match Java's


library

 with phobos or any runtime library.
 If your mind is not tied to grammar trees as mine, you may wish to join


Peri's

 project since the translation step is already done. Some Java expertise I


don't

 have is needed. The language machine is simpler to use than ANTLR, smaller


( but

 you may not bother ), and is implemented in D ( actually gdc but dmd ports


have

 been reported ).

 Gregor advice is fine too.

PS: Best advice: Just dive in and do it ^^


 It would be wise to merge our efforts toward common goals, but we still


should

 have choice in the tool we use. Moreover, A Java to XML tool could be used


by

 people outside the D community.
Jun 02 2006
prev sibling parent Peri Hankey <mpah thegreen.co.uk> writes:
Rémy Mouëza wrote:

BLS wrote:


Hi ,
A few month ago I am playing with the idea to create an Java2XML Tool in
order to use XML as intermediate language to translate Java into D. I found
an allready existing tool, but it only supports Java 1.3 and the generated
XML was not well formed. Anyway, Using ANTLR and the existing Java 1.5
Grammar I should be able to create a full working Java 1.5Parser . This
Parser will further enable me to create adequate XML representations....
XML to D ! At this point I am a little bit helpless and unexperienced, so I
would like to ask you, or somebody else of course , for advice, hints,links,
in other words help.

Bjoern




 
 
 Last year, I have made a tool similar to Gregor's bcd. It was using GCCXML and
 Python. I even ported part of the FLTK 1.5 library. I wasn't really satisfied
 and was planning to make my own C++ header parser to do it again (some day),
 using D this time but Gregor has been faster. 
 Last november, I also used Peri Hankey's Language machine
 (http://languagemachine.sf.net) to make a kind of C++ to D translator. I used
 Peri D to D translator ( a proof of concept ) based on the same following idea:
 
 

Most features of Java are supported by D in a somewhat direct fashion, 
so I suspect that many parts of the XML->D translation will be somewhat 
trivial.  Just write parser functions for each type of XML node that 
outputs the appropriate D code, and since the structure is fairly 
similar, much of it will probably work.


 
 
 I mean, lots of C++ features are supported by D in a simpler and cleaner
 fashion. Others are more difficult to translate. I just made some modifications
 througout Peri's original translator front end to fool the back end. 
 The parser could translate trivial code quite correctly but was making more
 errors with longer code. It was convenient for speeding the rewrite of some C++
 code into D. 
 Yet, I have some trouble with the language machine: I'm so used to think
 grammars as trees that I can't manage to start a binder from scratch using it.
 
 Gregor said:
 

But like I said, our projects, while they seem similar, are actually 
fundamentally different (porting vs binding), so I'm not sure how much 
help I can be.

 - Gregor Richards


 
 
 From what I've experienced, I'd say :
 - binding is relatively simpler than porting: there is less code to analyse but
 this prevent to use some features or make these features difficult to use (
 templates, cross-language porlymorphism, how to use D mixins in C++ ? ...).
 - porting, if successfully achieved, don't limit the D programmer: all D
 features can be used with the ported code, but there is more analysis involved,
 some features have no direct equivalent in the target language ( Java
 decorators, although we can do it using templates ) and there is no direct
match
 with the language library.
 
 I was disappointed with my C++ to D translator because although it produced
 syntactically correct code, the semantic was not translated at all. There had
to
 be a hand rewrite to make it work correctly. I didn't get any further. 
 
 Peri Hankeys made a Java to D translator, modifying his D to D front end to
make
 it handle Java syntax. The main point now is to manage to match Java's library
 with phobos or any runtime library. 
 If your mind is not tied to grammar trees as mine, you may wish to join Peri's
 project since the translation step is already done. Some Java expertise I don't
 have is needed. The language machine is simpler to use than ANTLR, smaller (
but
 you may not bother ), and is implemented in D ( actually gdc but dmd ports have
 been reported ).
 
 Gregor advice is fine too. 
 

PS: Best advice: Just dive in and do it ^^


 
 
 It would be wise to merge our efforts toward common goals, but we still should
 have choice in the tool we use. Moreover, A Java to XML tool could be used by
 people outside the D community.
 
 
  


I describe the j2d translator at

   http://languagemachine.sourceforge.net/j2d.html

As I said in a comment on the dsource forum for the language machine:

<quote>
The src/j2d directory now contains a Makefile and rules for translating 
Java to the D language. The Makefile contains some apparatus for 
converting directory trees. None of this is very well documented as yet, 
and it is as yet unclear how the Java package system should relate to 
the D language module system. The j2d translator has been tried on the 
gnu classpath java, gnu, javax and vm package hierarchies (over 750k 
lines including comments), and appears to produce code that is 
syntactically acceptable to GDC-0.17 although almost certainly wrong in 
many details. However it is not possible to make much progress beyond 
this point without resolving the package/module relationship.
</quote>

The simplest way of dealing with this would be for the D language to 
have some way of explicitly modelling Java's package/class relationships.

It should be noted that what I have done does not as yet make any 
attempt to deal with java 1.5 extensions, which I have not yet studied 
in any detail.

I have shown that the language machine compiles with gdc-0.18 with one 
patch to the gdc code - see: thread for this message

    http://www.digitalmars.com/drn-bin/wwwnews?D.gnu/1860

It was thanks to Remy's good work on the C++ translator that I did the 
same for Java. As I said elsewhere, the C++ project is bigger.

If anyone is interested to play with the j2d project, I am happy to be 
helpful - it would be really good to have others getting their heads 
round this beast.

On the xml front: if you have an effective translator from java to xml, 
the e4x extension to javascript makes it very easy to operate on 
javascript objects that directly represent xml objects. An equivalent 
extension to the D language would be interesting.

Personally I find xml and similar programmed tree-climbing exercises 
uncongenial by comparison with the grammatical transformation approach I 
am accustomed to.

It would also of course be possible to plug an xml output backend onto 
the j2d translator.

Regards to all
Peri

-- 
Peri Hankey                               mpah thegreen.co.uk
http://languagemachine.sourceforge.net - The language machine
Jun 03 2006
prev sibling parent "BLS" <lietz wanadoo.fr> writes:
Many thanks, Gregor
Though I hoped to get an more optimistic answere, your comments are highly
welcome. !!
I think I should create a Java 1.5 Lexer/Parser in D to give it a GO.
Instead of using XML as intermediate language I also can imagine to use
Terrence Parr s string templates to generate D Code without using an
intermediate step. ......................
Again thanks for your hints and comments.
Bjoern
PS
If you allow it I would like to ask you for some more information about your
project  .BCD.gen by email
Jun 02 2006