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digitalmars.D - A or W

reply "Scott Egan" <scotte tpg.com.aux> writes:
Walter, some few days a go I asked about typedefing the
std.c.windows.windows module.

One of the comments you made in responce to it was about not wishing to
change the definitions WRT the doco.

Unfortunately, the ANSI and Wide versions of the various windows functions
need to be accounted for.  Now I note that in the windows module functions
are declared as ANSI more than Wide.

Having to know when you need to distinguish between the two is a pain.  It
is truely a pity that we can't just let overloading work or have the linker
search for A or W versions as necessary.

Has anyone put any thought into this?
May 03 2004
parent reply =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Julio_C=E9sar_Carrascal_Urquijo?= writes:
Scott Egan wrote:

 Walter, some few days a go I asked about typedefing the
 std.c.windows.windows module.
 
 One of the comments you made in responce to it was about not wishing to
 change the definitions WRT the doco.
 
 Unfortunately, the ANSI and Wide versions of the various windows functions
 need to be accounted for.  Now I note that in the windows module functions
 are declared as ANSI more than Wide.
 
 Having to know when you need to distinguish between the two is a pain.  It
 is truely a pity that we can't just let overloading work or have the linker
 search for A or W versions as necessary.
 
 Has anyone put any thought into this?
 
 


This site (Japanese): http://hp.vector.co.jp/authors/VA028375/d/ has 
nicely packed import modules for the Win32 API functions and translation 
of it's macros to d inline functions. There are ANSI and Unicode 
versions. You should take a look.

Maybe we could convince Walter to bundle the package with the official 
DMD distribution.


-- 
Julio César Carrascal Urquijo
http://jcesar.f2o.org/
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.12
GCS$ d- s+:+ a-- C++> ULS++ P++ L+> !E W+++ N+ o? K? w++>
O---  M V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5- X+++  R- tv+(++) b++> DI!
D++> G e+> h-- r- y+
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
May 03 2004
parent reply Mike Wynn <one_mad_alien hotmail.com> writes:
On Mon, 03 May 2004 16:40:38 -0500, Julio César Carrascal Urquijo
<adnoctum phreaker.net> wrote:


Scott Egan wrote:

 Walter, some few days a go I asked about typedefing the
 std.c.windows.windows module.
 
 One of the comments you made in responce to it was about not wishing to
 change the definitions WRT the doco.
 
 Unfortunately, the ANSI and Wide versions of the various windows functions
 need to be accounted for.  Now I note that in the windows module functions
 are declared as ANSI more than Wide.
 
 Having to know when you need to distinguish between the two is a pain.  It
 is truely a pity that we can't just let overloading work or have the linker
 search for A or W versions as necessary.
 
 Has anyone put any thought into this?
 
 


This site (Japanese): http://hp.vector.co.jp/authors/VA028375/d/ has 
nicely packed import modules for the Win32 API functions and translation 
of it's macros to d inline functions. There are ANSI and Unicode 
versions. You should take a look.

Maybe we could convince Walter to bundle the package with the official 
DMD distribution.


there is now a place where you can contribte ...
http://www.dsource.org/projects/core32/
the files can be download from
http://www.geocities.com/one_mad_alien/dcode/ if you don't have
subversion.
over the next few weeks I will be contacting the Japanese developer to
see if we can't merge our effort and get more headers ported.
currently (and until there is full win32 support in phobos) the libs
on dsource have a build version(STANDALONE) if you don't want to
include std.c.wndows.*;
and version(UNICODE) for to make the undecorated functions W not A.
I have also considered a templated struct (as a templated namespace)
wrapper i.e.
struct win32( T: char ) {
	func( char* foo ) { funcA( foo ); }
	... etc ...
}
struct win32( T: wchar ) {
	func( wchar* foo ) { funcW( foo ); }
	... etc ...
}
struct win32( T: dchar ) {
	func( dchar* foo ) { funcW( utf.32to16z(foo) ); }
	... etc ...
}
then use alias win32.core.win32!(wchar) win32; // or similar

but personally I feel a better solution would be via compiler alias
and having a true String class (conceptual class not nec. a real one)
so you could write
func( char * foo ) = alias funcA( foo );
func( wchar * foo ) = alias funcW( foo );
func( String foo ) = alias funcW( foo ); // called if "" is used will
call uft.8to16 if the string is utf8/ansi not wchar[] etc.

as the current "..."->char/wchar is a pain (either that or make "..."
wchar like Java, forget the days when you could not have non latin
chars in strings and put the 'u' back in colour :)

there is a forum on dsource if you have feelings about how we should
continue with the current D compiler :)

Mike.
May 06 2004
next sibling parent reply Brad Anderson <brad dsource.dot.org> writes:
 forget the days when you could not have non latin
 chars in strings and put the 'u' back in colour :)


let's go easy on us yankees - we meant well.  I think.
May 06 2004
parent reply "Matthew" <matthew.hat stlsoft.dot.org> writes:
"Brad Anderson" <brad dsource.dot.org> wrote in message
news:c7f2u3$1lss$1 digitaldaemon.com...

 forget the days when you could not have non latin
 chars in strings and put the 'u' back in colour :)


 let's go easy on us yankees - we meant well.  I think.


I'm totally confused. One of my US friends nearly reaches through the T1 and
grabs me by the throat if I call him a Yankee.

Can someone explain the rules? (We're thinking of moving US-ward next year, and
it would be good to know what not to say to whom.)
May 07 2004
next sibling parent "Unknown W. Brackets" <unknown at.simplemachines.dot.org> writes:
Matthew wrote:

 I'm totally confused. One of my US friends nearly reaches through the T1 and
 grabs me by the throat if I call him a Yankee.
 
 Can someone explain the rules? (We're thinking of moving US-ward next year, and
 it would be good to know what not to say to whom.)
 


Yankee can be a good thing but it depends on who you're saying it too. 
Some people take it as a sort of silly way of saying patriotic, others 
take it as hick, and yet others take it as a slur against Americans.

I guess the most politically correct way is to not use it at all, but 
most people don't care... I think it's regional, but I couldn't name the 
regions for you.  (might be southerners, but then again might be touchy 
northerners.)

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Yankee (not there but 
look at the suggestions.)
http://www.google.com/search?q=define%3Ayankee

-[Unknown]
May 07 2004
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Brad Anderson <brad sankaty.dot.com> writes:
I'm just an Ohio guy who moved to Ithaca, NY, then to Tampa, FL, and 
currently finds himself (somewhat reluctantly) in Houston, TX.  Yankee? 
  Hard to say.  Offended?  Not in the least.  I deliberately did not 
capitalize yankee, because I figured one would assume I was speaking of 
the despicable New York Yankees Baseball team.  (Despicable, only 
because they win too much).

No worries from me, though.  If you were to move US-ward, please drop me 
a line.  As Kris Bell said, upon the threat of visiting in Australia, 
"I'd blow the froth off a few blondies with Matthew any day."  I'm 
hoping you'd look me up for the same shenanigans.

BA


Matthew wrote:

 "Brad Anderson" <brad dsource.dot.org> wrote in message
 news:c7f2u3$1lss$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 

forget the days when you could not have non latin
chars in strings and put the 'u' back in colour :)


let's go easy on us yankees - we meant well.  I think.


 
 
 I'm totally confused. One of my US friends nearly reaches through the T1 and
 grabs me by the throat if I call him a Yankee.
 
 Can someone explain the rules? (We're thinking of moving US-ward next year, and
 it would be good to know what not to say to whom.)
May 07 2004
parent "Matthew" <matthew.hat stlsoft.dot.org> writes:
"Brad Anderson" <brad sankaty.dot.com> wrote in message
news:c7hn2p$2n15$1 digitaldaemon.com...

 I'm just an Ohio guy who moved to Ithaca, NY, then to Tampa, FL, and
 currently finds himself (somewhat reluctantly) in Houston, TX.  Yankee?
   Hard to say.  Offended?  Not in the least.  I deliberately did not
 capitalize yankee, because I figured one would assume I was speaking of
 the despicable New York Yankees Baseball team.  (Despicable, only
 because they win too much).

 No worries from me, though.  If you were to move US-ward, please drop me
 a line.  As Kris Bell said, upon the threat of visiting in Australia,
 "I'd blow the froth off a few blondies with Matthew any day."  I'm
 hoping you'd look me up for the same shenanigans.


Cool. Will do. Would love to do either. ;)

I must warn you, however, that if you get me on the right topic, I will talk
your
arm off with even greater volume - I wanted to say dexterity, but not only is
that inviting contradiction, it's also a bit of a logical dissonance when
comparing talking + speaking - than I write. And that was a good example of what
I'm talking about.

btw, I had my first drink - a glass of dessert wine - in nearly four years last
night. (I've avoided alcohol not because I've a "drinking problem", but rather
because I developed a bit of a sensitive stomach.) The occasion was to celebrate
my 36th - how did that happen!! - birthday, my wife's XXth birthday, and finally
(as of the 5th May, when I sent off the last round of technical reviews/edits)
getting "Imperfect C++" truly *out* of the door. It's in production now, so the
only involvement I have left prior to its release in Sept is choosing a cover,
defending my grammar, preparing the CD, and selecting a sub-title. (And that's a
whole 'nother story. If anyone's got any ideas, I'd be happy to hear them, as
I'm
running on empty.)

Anyway, all friends and family present, used to alchohol having previously
transformed my 100 words per minute (sober) into 200 words per minute (squiffy),
were somewhat disappointed - albeit utterly relieved - to see that the effect it
had was to send me to sleep in about 3 minutes flat. LOL!

If we do come over to the US, it'll be interesting to catch up with all kinds of
folks I've become friends with in the C++ and D communities. But I suggest soy
chocolate milkshakes and triple choc cookies might be the go. Of course, if you
get me fully caffienated .... <G>

Cheers

Matty

(36 going on 21)


 Matthew wrote:

 "Brad Anderson" <brad dsource.dot.org> wrote in message
 news:c7f2u3$1lss$1 digitaldaemon.com...


forget the days when you could not have non latin
chars in strings and put the 'u' back in colour :)


let's go easy on us yankees - we meant well.  I think.



 I'm totally confused. One of my US friends nearly reaches through the T1 and
 grabs me by the throat if I call him a Yankee.

 Can someone explain the rules? (We're thinking of moving US-ward next year,




and

 it would be good to know what not to say to whom.)
May 07 2004
prev sibling parent "Walter" <newshound digitalmars.com> writes:
"Matthew" <matthew.hat stlsoft.dot.org> wrote in message
news:c7h0kf$1nc6$1 digitaldaemon.com...

 "Brad Anderson" <brad dsource.dot.org> wrote in message
 news:c7f2u3$1lss$1 digitaldaemon.com...

 forget the days when you could not have non latin
 chars in strings and put the 'u' back in colour :)


 let's go easy on us yankees - we meant well.  I think.


 I'm totally confused. One of my US friends nearly reaches through the T1


and

 grabs me by the throat if I call him a Yankee.

 Can someone explain the rules? (We're thinking of moving US-ward next


year, and

 it would be good to know what not to say to whom.)


This might help: http://www.bartleby.com/61/60/Y0006000.html
 http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Yankee
 http://www.nwta.com/couriers/10-96/yankeed.html

A union soldier in the Civil War was called "Billy Yank", "Johnny Reb" for
the confederate soldier, much as "GI Joe" today.
Jun 10 2004
prev sibling parent reply =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Julio_C=E9sar_Carrascal_Urquijo?= writes:
Mike Wynn wrote:

 there is now a place where you can contribte ...
 http://www.dsource.org/projects/core32/
 the files can be download from
 http://www.geocities.com/one_mad_alien/dcode/ if you don't have
 subversion.


Nice.


 over the next few weeks I will be contacting the Japanese developer to
 see if we can't merge our effort and get more headers ported.
 currently (and until there is full win32 support in phobos) the libs
 on dsource have a build version(STANDALONE) if you don't want to
 include std.c.wndows.*;


IIRC you can't import both packages (Name collitions).


 and version(UNICODE) for to make the undecorated functions W not A.


Yes, this is needed.


 I have also considered a templated struct (as a templated namespace)
 wrapper i.e.
 struct win32( T: char ) {
 	func( char* foo ) { funcA( foo ); }
 	... etc ...
 }
 struct win32( T: wchar ) {
 	func( wchar* foo ) { funcW( foo ); }
 	... etc ...
 }
 struct win32( T: dchar ) {
 	func( dchar* foo ) { funcW( utf.32to16z(foo) ); }
 	... etc ...
 }
 then use alias win32.core.win32!(wchar) win32; // or similar
 
 but personally I feel a better solution would be via compiler alias
 and having a true String class (conceptual class not nec. a real one)
 so you could write
 func( char * foo ) = alias funcA( foo );
 func( wchar * foo ) = alias funcW( foo );
 func( String foo ) = alias funcW( foo ); // called if "" is used will
 call uft.8to16 if the string is utf8/ansi not wchar[] etc.
 
 as the current "..."->char/wchar is a pain (either that or make "..."
 wchar like Java, forget the days when you could not have non latin
 chars in strings and put the 'u' back in colour :)
 
 there is a forum on dsource if you have feelings about how we should
 continue with the current D compiler :)
 
 Mike.


For the string handling there's a TCHAR alias that is a wchar* or char* 
depending on the version.

About using a string class, my opinion is to have a set of import 
modules as close to the Win32 API headers as posible, and add separate 
lightweight layers on top with facilities like string conversions and 
errors codes translated to exceptions, etc...

What do you think about it?

-- 
Julio César Carrascal Urquijo
http://jcesar.f2o.org/
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.12
GCS$ d- s+:+ a-- C++> ULS++ P++ L+> !E W+++ N+ o? K? w++>
O---  M V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5- X+++  R- tv+(++) b++> DI!
D++> G e+> h-- r- y+
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
May 07 2004
parent reply Mike Wynn <one_mad_alien hotmail.com> writes:
On Fri, 07 May 2004 10:24:52 -0500, Julio César Carrascal Urquijo
<adnoctum phreaker.net> wrote:


Mike Wynn wrote:

 there is now a place where you can contribte ...
 http://www.dsource.org/projects/core32/
 the files can be download from
 http://www.geocities.com/one_mad_alien/dcode/ if you don't have
 subversion.


Nice.


cheers.


 over the next few weeks I will be contacting the Japanese developer to
 see if we can't merge our effort and get more headers ported.
 currently (and until there is full win32 support in phobos) the libs
 on dsource have a build version(STANDALONE) if you don't want to
 include std.c.wndows.*;


IIRC you can't import both packages (Name collitions).


do you means std.c.windows and win32.api ? if so then there is a new
snap shot that is 0.88 aware.
(http://svn.dsource.org/svn/projects/l8night/downloads/)
its in the l8night project area for the moment.
is you set version(STANDALONE) you should not import std.c.window.*,
or any of phobos (such as std.file) that does, you'll just have to
hack your local phobos.


if you mean win32.api and
http://hp.vector.co.jp/authors/VA028375/d/windows.h.html
then yes they are do colide, I am in the progress of sorting out a
merge (either take the bits I need, or join the two projects).


 and version(UNICODE) for to make the undecorated functions W not A.


Yes, this is needed.


 I have also considered a templated struct (as a templated namespace)
 wrapper i.e.
 struct win32( T: char ) {
 	func( char* foo ) { funcA( foo ); }
 	... etc ...
 }
 struct win32( T: wchar ) {
 	func( wchar* foo ) { funcW( foo ); }
 	... etc ...
 }
 struct win32( T: dchar ) {
 	func( dchar* foo ) { funcW( utf.32to16z(foo) ); }
 	... etc ...
 }
 then use alias win32.core.win32!(wchar) win32; // or similar
 
 but personally I feel a better solution would be via compiler alias
 and having a true String class (conceptual class not nec. a real one)
 so you could write
 func( char * foo ) = alias funcA( foo );
 func( wchar * foo ) = alias funcW( foo );
 func( String foo ) = alias funcW( foo ); // called if "" is used will
 call uft.8to16 if the string is utf8/ansi not wchar[] etc.
 
 as the current "..."->char/wchar is a pain (either that or make "..."
 wchar like Java, forget the days when you could not have non latin
 chars in strings and put the 'u' back in colour :)
 
 there is a forum on dsource if you have feelings about how we should
 continue with the current D compiler :)
 
 Mike.


For the string handling there's a TCHAR alias that is a wchar* or char* 
depending on the version.


good point, did I get that right?


About using a string class, my opinion is to have a set of import 
modules as close to the Win32 API headers as posible, and add separate 
lightweight layers on top with facilities like string conversions and 
errors codes translated to exceptions, etc...

What do you think about it?


that would become part of my DFC, which is rather scrappy at present I
only wrote enough for my own uses [you can write windows app with it]
my plan was/is to have the win32.* modules as close to the windows
header as is humanly possible, and D-isms would be put into
suplementry libs (for now my DFC)

but the more I use it (and get frustrated with "..." being char/wchar
depending on context) I'm becoming very must of the opinion that it
should all be wchar, if D gets ported to VxWorks or ECos, well that
don't effect the Windows API, hands up who's got less than 64Mb on
their PC and wants 1Mb ansi strings?

Mike.
May 07 2004
parent reply =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Julio_C=E9sar_Carrascal_Urquijo?= writes:
Mike Wynn wrote:

IIRC you can't import both packages (Name collitions).


 
 
 do you means std.c.windows and win32.api ? if so then there is a new
 snap shot that is 0.88 aware.
 (http://svn.dsource.org/svn/projects/l8night/downloads/)
 its in the l8night project area for the moment.
 is you set version(STANDALONE) you should not import std.c.window.*,
 or any of phobos (such as std.file) that does, you'll just have to
 hack your local phobos.
 
 
 if you mean win32.api and
 http://hp.vector.co.jp/authors/VA028375/d/windows.h.html
 then yes they are do colide, I am in the progress of sorting out a
 merge (either take the bits I need, or join the two projects).


Yes, I meant importing std.c.windows.windows and the one at hp.vector.co.jp.

Why use STANDALONE? If we make a good job, Great Walter will replace 
std.c.windows.windows with ours by 0.89 ;)

Now seriously, do we really need to be compatible with Phobos' windows 
module? I don't see any benefit in that.

Anyway, if you don't mind, I'll start working with "commdlg.d" during 
this weekend and send you a patch by monday.

See you.


-- 
Julio César Carrascal Urquijo
http://jcesar.f2o.org/
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.12
GCS$ d- s+:+ a-- C++> ULS++ P++ L+> !E W+++ N+ o? K? w++>
O---  M V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5- X+++  R- tv+(++) b++> DI!
D++> G e+> h-- r- y+
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
May 07 2004
parent Mike Wynn <one_mad_alien hotmail.com> writes:
On Fri, 07 May 2004 17:41:52 -0500, Julio César Carrascal Urquijo
<adnoctum phreaker.net> wrote:


Yes, I meant importing std.c.windows.windows and the one at hp.vector.co.jp.


well thats to be expected, they are the same work done by two
different ppl!


Why use STANDALONE? If we make a good job, Great Walter will replace 
std.c.windows.windows with ours by 0.89 ;)

Now seriously, do we really need to be compatible with Phobos' windows 
module? I don't see any benefit in that.


because until it is part of phobos ppl have a choise to use win32.api
with phobos std.c.windows.windows; or not. 

my windows port was done a long time ago, I gave up extending it for
two reasons
A) Walter kept adding bits to phobos that clashed
B) no one else seemed to be using it (and it did all I needed).


Anyway, if you don't mind, I'll start working with "commdlg.d" during 
this weekend and send you a patch by monday.


plz make sure you get the latest version from either
http://www.geocities.com/one_mad_alien/dcode/index.html
http://svn.dsource.org/svn/projects/l8night/downloads/

core32_2004.05.07.src.zip
(updated for dmd 0.88)

what needs changing ? plz put any comments onto the dsource forum, if
you are intending on merging code from hp.vector.co.jp plz wait as I
have not had a reply from the owner of that source allowing us the
rights to use that in my/our win32 lib.

other wise, best of luck, check with Brad and get a svn login so the
rest of us get your changes.


See you.
May 07 2004