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digitalmars.D - Porting D to another OS

reply "Casper Ellingsen" <noreply ellingsen.no> writes:
Hi,

I've been taking a closer look at the D programming language lately, and=
 I  =

must say it's nothing more than brilliant. The reason why I post this  =

message is simple. I'm just wondering how hard it would be to port the  =

compiler to another operating system? I'm talking about SkyOS  =

(http://www.skyos.org/), a relatively new operating system still in  =

development. It has to be pointed out that I'm not a member of the actua=
l  =

SkyOS crew. I'm just a member of it's community. A member who wants to  =

help with the software development, because every operating system needs=
  =

good software. SkyOS currently support both C and C++, but based on my  =

experiments with D so far, getting D ported to SkyOS would surely boost =
my  =

productivity. I might also get some people working on a class library fo=
r  =

SkyOS, which would make more people in the community start using D too. =
 =

So, back to my question. What steps would have to be taken to make this =
 =

possible, and how long would it take?
-- =

Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
Nov 23 2005
next sibling parent reply Wolfgang Draxinger <wdraxinger darkstargames.de> writes:
Casper Ellingsen wrote:


 question. What steps would have to be taken to make this
 possible, and how long would it take?


If you can use the GCC you might want to patch a 3.4 GCC with D
support and customly build this. After that you will have to add
OS specific parts to the Phobos library (which you might know is
the equvivalent to libc of the C programming language, but much
nicer).

I've read some stuff about SkyOS but never got the time to
actually try it out.

-- 
Wolfgang Draxinger
Nov 23 2005
parent reply "Kris" <fu bar.com> writes:
"Wolfgang Draxinger" <wdraxinger darkstargames.de> wrote

 Casper Ellingsen wrote:


 question. What steps would have to be taken to make this
 possible, and how long would it take?


 If you can use the GCC you might want to patch a 3.4 GCC with D
 support and customly build this. After that you will have to add
 OS specific parts to the Phobos library (which you might know is
 the equvivalent to libc of the C programming language, but much
 nicer).


I'd highly recommend porting Ares first. It's tiny by comparison (so, less 
work!) yet has everything the compiler needs for its runtime support.
Nov 23 2005
parent "Casper Ellingsen" <noreply ellingsen.no> writes:
On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 01:09:37 +0100, Kris <fu bar.com> wrote:


 "Wolfgang Draxinger" <wdraxinger darkstargames.de> wrote

 Casper Ellingsen wrote:


 question. What steps would have to be taken to make this
 possible, and how long would it take?


 If you can use the GCC you might want to patch a 3.4 GCC with D
 support and customly build this. After that you will have to add
 OS specific parts to the Phobos library (which you might know is
 the equvivalent to libc of the C programming language, but much
 nicer).


 I'd highly recommend porting Ares first. It's tiny by comparison (so, =


 =


 less
 work!) yet has everything the compiler needs for its runtime support.


Yes, GCC is already ported to SkyOS, so that might work. How hard is it =
to  =

patch it with D support? And are the patch and Ares (or Phobos) all that=
  =

need to be done?

-- =

Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
Nov 23 2005
prev sibling next sibling parent reply =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Jari-Matti_M=E4kel=E4?= <jmjmak invalid_utu.fi> writes:
Casper Ellingsen wrote:

 Hi,
 
 I've been taking a closer look at the D programming language lately, and 
 I  must say it's nothing more than brilliant. The reason why I post 
 this  message is simple. I'm just wondering how hard it would be to port 
 the  compiler to another operating system? I'm talking about SkyOS  
 (http://www.skyos.org/), a relatively new operating system still in  
 development. It has to be pointed out that I'm not a member of the 
 actual  SkyOS crew. I'm just a member of it's community. A member who 
 wants to  help with the software development, because every operating 
 system needs  good software. SkyOS currently support both C and C++, but 
 based on my  experiments with D so far, getting D ported to SkyOS would 
 surely boost my  productivity. I might also get some people working on a 
 class library for  SkyOS, which would make more people in the community 
 start using D too.  So, back to my question. What steps would have to be 
 taken to make this  possible, and how long would it take?


This SkyOS looks übercool :D Too bad it's closed source. I just don't 
get it - how do these guys have resources to do it all from scratch?? 
And I've always though that Linux development was fast.
Nov 23 2005
next sibling parent "Casper Ellingsen" <noreply ellingsen.no> writes:
On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 01:42:34 +0100, Jari-Matti M=E4kel=E4  =

<jmjmak invalid_utu.fi> wrote:


 This SkyOS looks =FCbercool :D Too bad it's closed source. I just don'=


t  =


 get it - how do these guys have resources to do it all from scratch?? =


 =


 And I've always though that Linux development was fast.


Will it amaze you even more if I told you that one single guy wrote the =
 =

entire OS core by himself? ;)

-- =

Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
Nov 23 2005
prev sibling parent John Reimer <terminal.node gmail.com> writes:
Jari-Matti Mäkelä wrote:

 Casper Ellingsen wrote:
 

 Hi,

 I've been taking a closer look at the D programming language lately, 
 and I  must say it's nothing more than brilliant. The reason why I 
 post this  message is simple. I'm just wondering how hard it would be 
 to port the  compiler to another operating system? I'm talking about 
 SkyOS  (http://www.skyos.org/), a relatively new operating system 
 still in  development. It has to be pointed out that I'm not a member 
 of the actual  SkyOS crew. I'm just a member of it's community. A 
 member who wants to  help with the software development, because every 
 operating system needs  good software. SkyOS currently support both C 
 and C++, but based on my  experiments with D so far, getting D ported 
 to SkyOS would surely boost my  productivity. I might also get some 
 people working on a class library for  SkyOS, which would make more 
 people in the community start using D too.  So, back to my question. 
 What steps would have to be taken to make this  possible, and how long 
 would it take?


 
 
 This SkyOS looks übercool :D Too bad it's closed source. I just don't 
 get it - how do these guys have resources to do it all from scratch?? 
 And I've always though that Linux development was fast.


SkyOS isn't free. You buy the option of being a beta tester to the tune 
of $30 US (that's where they get the resources ;) ).  I've bought into 
it and have derived mild enjoyment from the experience (I periodically 
install updates in my vmware machine).  But it still has a ways to go. 
I know there are people that gripe about its being closed source.  It 
doesn't matter to me either way since I couldn't use it for day to day 
work anyway.  Most of the software ported to it, of course, is open source.

I don't think it would be a big deal to get gdc working on it.  Perhaps 
it would be nifty; frankly, though, I don't think it would be any more 
exciting or special than having D on any other C based OS.  I think it's 
just more of the same. Granted, I would never dissuade anyone from 
trying to port it.  Getting D anywhere and everywhere is a good thing.

On the other hand, when we see a OS built with D integrated with DDL, 
GC, and serialization libraries in the core... now that will be exciting.

That said, as hopless as these dreams may be, there are a few C-based 
OSes that I'd _really_ like to see adopt the D language:  Windows 
Mobile, Palm OS, and Amiga DE.

WM5/Pocket PC uses the MS Visual C\C++ compiler.  I know of no 
"official" gcc port to it, although I know there are some outdated gcc 
packages floating about that few people know about.  D doesn't have a 
chance on it without a solid gcc port.  Microsoft seems to have 
successful monopoly on Pocket PC's with there compiler suite.  I'd say 
it's almost hopeless to see D show up there.

Palm OS is dying, if not dead, although its API may turn Linux based 
soon -- I don't know how long that will last.  D doesn't look like it 
will make it there unless Palm suddenly becomes successful again.  But 
there certainly is a mostly up-to-date gcc available on that platform.

AmigaDE uses a customized gcc chain that compiles to VPcode (a platform 
independent assembler language invented by TAO, an embedded operating 
systems developer), but I have no knowledge of whether the current 
rendition supports a recent gcc port.  Furthermore, as fascinating as 
AmigaDE is, it's market is miniscule and probably won't attract much 
attention, especially because developers can't enter the club or get the 
SDK's without a tedious NDA.

Ah well... plenty of time to dream on.

:)

-JJR
Nov 23 2005
prev sibling next sibling parent reply bobef <bobef lessequal.com> writes:
Casper Ellingsen wrote:

 Hi,
 
 I've been taking a closer look at the D programming language lately, and 
 I  must say it's nothing more than brilliant. The reason why I post 
 this  message is simple. I'm just wondering how hard it would be to port 
 the  compiler to another operating system? I'm talking about SkyOS  
 (http://www.skyos.org/), a relatively new operating system still in  
 development. It has to be pointed out that I'm not a member of the 
 actual  SkyOS crew. I'm just a member of it's community. A member who 
 wants to  help with the software development, because every operating 
 system needs  good software. SkyOS currently support both C and C++, but 
 based on my  experiments with D so far, getting D ported to SkyOS would 
 surely boost my  productivity. I might also get some people working on a 
 class library for  SkyOS, which would make more people in the community 
 start using D too.  So, back to my question. What steps would have to be 
 taken to make this  possible, and how long would it take?


Yes! This is what I am waiting for long time - SkyOS. Some time ago I 
asked about D compiler in the SkyOS forum. It would be wanderful :)
Nov 24 2005
parent Georg Wrede <georg.wrede nospam.org> writes:
bobef wrote:

 Casper Ellingsen wrote:
 

 I've been taking a closer look at the D programming language lately, 
 and I  must say it's nothing more than brilliant. The reason why I 
 post this  message is simple. I'm just wondering how hard it would be 
 to port the  compiler to another operating system? I'm talking about 
 SkyOS  (http://www.skyos.org/), a relatively new operating system 
 still in  development.


 
 Yes! This is what I am waiting for long time - SkyOS. Some time ago I 
 asked about D compiler in the SkyOS forum. It would be wanderful :)


I think it would be excellent to get D on SkyOS. Especially this early 
in its life!

I'm sure the SkyOS crowd (hopefully both developers and future users) 
would fall in love with D (just as about everybody else who've ever 
taken a test drive)!

And D could thus gain a new vector for taking over the world. :-)
Nov 24 2005
prev sibling next sibling parent reply "Walter Bright" <newshound digitalmars.com> writes:
What CPU is it? (The url for skyos doesn't work.)
Nov 24 2005
parent reply John Reimer <terminal.node gmail.com> writes:
Walter Bright wrote:

 What CPU is it? (The url for skyos doesn't work.)
 
 


It's for x86 cpus.  Perhaps the Linux port of dmd would be useful if a 
port to SkOS were persued. It may use a lot of the same linking technology.

I'm not sure if it uses elf or not, but it probably does, much like Linux.
Nov 24 2005
parent reply "Casper Ellingsen" <noreply ellingsen.no> writes:
On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 22:05:00 +0100, John Reimer <terminal.node gmail.com=

  =


wrote:


 Walter Bright wrote:

 What CPU is it? (The url for skyos doesn't work.)


 It's for x86 cpus.


This is correct. Quote from the about section on the web page:

"SkyOS is an operating system written from scratch for x86 PC's. As  =

required for a modern operating system, it supports features such as  =

multiprocessor support (SMP), virtual memory, memory protection,  =

multitasking and threading etc. Additionally, SkyOS has a built-in GUI  =

system named SkyGI."


 I'm not sure if it uses elf or not, but it probably does, much like  =



 Linux.


ELF and PE should be supported, as far as I know.

So is it doable? Is this something someone in the D community could do, =
or  =

would I have to make the chief (creator of SkyOS) himself do it? He didn=
't  =

seem too thrilled the last time I asked him though. I don't have the  =

experience to do it myself, but if someone could guide me through it, I'=
d  =

gladely try to do it myself.
-- =

Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
Nov 24 2005
parent reply "Walter Bright" <newshound digitalmars.com> writes:
If PE is supported, the first thing I'd do is see if the PE Windows
executables DMD and OPTLINK will run unmodified.
Nov 24 2005
parent reply "Casper Ellingsen" <noreply ellingsen.no> writes:
On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 00:46:49 +0100, Walter Bright  =

<newshound digitalmars.com> wrote:


 If PE is supported, the first thing I'd do is see if the PE Windows
 executables DMD and OPTLINK will run unmodified.


I downloaded DMD on SkyOS, unzipped it and ran the bin/dmd.exe file, wit=
h  =

no success.

There's a cross compiler that can be used to compile C and C++ code to  =

SkyOS executables within Windows. Doing a gcc -v shows that gcc is  =

configured with --target=3Di386-skyos-pe.

So, next step?
-- =

Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
Nov 25 2005
parent reply "Walter Bright" <newshound digitalmars.com> writes:
So, what exactly is the "PE support" in SkyOS if it won't run PE
executables? What happens when you try it?
Nov 25 2005
parent reply "Casper Ellingsen" <noreply ellingsen.no> writes:
On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 22:38:00 +0100, Walter Bright  =

<newshound digitalmars.com> wrote:


 So, what exactly is the "PE support" in SkyOS if it won't run PE
 executables?


I'd have to talk to Robert about that, but he's currently unavailable.


 What happens when you try it?


It says: 'path/dmd.app: not in executable format: I/O error'

By the way, the web page is back up. You can post in the developer forum=
  =

if you want more details. Maybe you can convince Robert to port it. He's=
 a  =

really smart guy, but he has lots to do, and doesn't see the point in  =

porting D. He arguments that few people actually use it, it's future is =
 =

unknown, and doesn't want to force a new language on people. I say, why =
 =

not use the better language even though it's not as popular?
-- =

Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
Nov 25 2005
next sibling parent reply "Walter Bright" <newshound digitalmars.com> writes:
"Casper Ellingsen" <noreply ellingsen.no> wrote in message
news:op.s0tid8q9d9fset casper.studby.ntnu.no...

 By the way, the web page is back up. You can post in the developer forum
 if you want more details. Maybe you can convince Robert to port it. He's a
 really smart guy, but he has lots to do, and doesn't see the point in
 porting D. He arguments that few people actually use it, it's future is
 unknown, and doesn't want to force a new language on people. I say, why
 not use the better language even though it's not as popular?


The irony here is I could say exactly the same thing about SkyOS!

The point is that those developers who would be interested in SkyOS are
likely to be the same types of people who are interested in D - those
interested in and willing to try new things outside the status quo.
Nov 26 2005
next sibling parent reply John Reimer <terminal.node gmail.com> writes:
Walter Bright wrote:

 "Casper Ellingsen" <noreply ellingsen.no> wrote in message
 news:op.s0tid8q9d9fset casper.studby.ntnu.no...
 

By the way, the web page is back up. You can post in the developer forum
if you want more details. Maybe you can convince Robert to port it. He's a
really smart guy, but he has lots to do, and doesn't see the point in
porting D. He arguments that few people actually use it, it's future is
unknown, and doesn't want to force a new language on people. I say, why
not use the better language even though it's not as popular?


 
 
 The irony here is I could say exactly the same thing about SkyOS!
 
 The point is that those developers who would be interested in SkyOS are
 likely to be the same types of people who are interested in D - those
 interested in and willing to try new things outside the status quo.
 
 


Well said!
Nov 26 2005
parent reply "Walter Bright" <newshound digitalmars.com> writes:
"John Reimer" <terminal.node gmail.com> wrote in message
news:dmabn2$2r5p$1 digitaldaemon.com...

 Walter Bright wrote:

 "Casper Ellingsen" <noreply ellingsen.no> wrote in message
 news:op.s0tid8q9d9fset casper.studby.ntnu.no...


By the way, the web page is back up. You can post in the developer forum
if you want more details. Maybe you can convince Robert to port it. He's






a

really smart guy, but he has lots to do, and doesn't see the point in
porting D. He arguments that few people actually use it, it's future is
unknown, and doesn't want to force a new language on people. I say, why
not use the better language even though it's not as popular?


 The irony here is I could say exactly the same thing about SkyOS!

 The point is that those developers who would be interested in SkyOS are
 likely to be the same types of people who are interested in D - those
 interested in and willing to try new things outside the status quo.


 Well said!


I might also add that the number one item a new operating system needs are:
developer tools! With dev tools come the developers, and with the developers
come the apps.
Nov 26 2005
parent reply "Casper Ellingsen" <noreply ellingsen.no> writes:
On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 20:12:26 +0100, Walter Bright  =

<newshound digitalmars.com> wrote:


 Walter Bright wrote:
 I might also add that the number one item a new operating system needs=


  =


 are:
 developer tools! With dev tools come the developers, and with the  =



 developers
 come the apps.


Yup. You are absolutely correct. And even if D is a less used language, =
 =

it's easier to learn than C++, and for those who already know C++,  =

learning D should be quite easy. I have experience with C++ myself, and =
 =

after only trying D for a few days, I already feel that I'm more  =

productive using D than C++. Not to mention C.

I've been working on a class library for SkyOS lately. The progress isn'=
t  =

overwhelming though, because there's issues that have to be thought well=
  =

through. Adding a garbage collector would speed things up alot, and all =
 =

the other fancy features of D wouldn't exactly hold me back either. Now =
 =

that I know about D, I don't really want to continue working on the  =

C++ class library. I want to get D ported, and rewrite the library to us=
e  =

D. So, yeah! I wish both SkyOS and D the best future possible, and I  =

believe that mixing them is nothing more than a positive thing for the  =

both of them.
-- =

Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
Nov 26 2005
parent reply John Reimer <terminal.node gmail.com> writes:
Casper Ellingsen wrote:

 On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 20:12:26 +0100, Walter Bright  
 <newshound digitalmars.com> wrote:
 

 Walter Bright wrote:
 I might also add that the number one item a new operating system 
 needs  are:
 developer tools! With dev tools come the developers, and with the  
 developers
 come the apps.


 
 Yup. You are absolutely correct. And even if D is a less used language,  
 it's easier to learn than C++, and for those who already know C++,  
 learning D should be quite easy. I have experience with C++ myself, and  
 after only trying D for a few days, I already feel that I'm more  
 productive using D than C++. Not to mention C.
 
 I've been working on a class library for SkyOS lately. The progress 
 isn't  overwhelming though, because there's issues that have to be 
 thought well  through. Adding a garbage collector would speed things up 
 alot, and all  the other fancy features of D wouldn't exactly hold me 
 back either. Now  that I know about D, I don't really want to continue 
 working on the  C++ class library. I want to get D ported, and rewrite 
 the library to use  D. So, yeah! I wish both SkyOS and D the best future 
 possible, and I  believe that mixing them is nothing more than a 
 positive thing for the  both of them.


It's interesting to note that other projects seem to be looking into new 
languages to replace C/C++.  The GNOME project appears to be looking for 
a new development language: www.osnews.com -- "Eiffel: Viable Candidate 
As a Language for the GNOME Platform?"

Looks like language devotees are jumping in to promote there language of 
choice. :)

Quite frankly, I think D fits the criteria better than most.

-JJR
Nov 26 2005
parent "Dave" <Dave_member pathlink.com> writes:
"John Reimer" <terminal.node gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:dmahvf$361$1 digitaldaemon.com...

 Casper Ellingsen wrote:

 On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 20:12:26 +0100, Walter Bright 
 <newshound digitalmars.com> wrote:


 Walter Bright wrote:
 I might also add that the number one item a new operating system needs 
 are:
 developer tools! With dev tools come the developers, and with the 
 developers
 come the apps.


 Yup. You are absolutely correct. And even if D is a less used language, 
 it's easier to learn than C++, and for those who already know C++, 
 learning D should be quite easy. I have experience with C++ myself, and 
 after only trying D for a few days, I already feel that I'm more 
 productive using D than C++. Not to mention C.

 I've been working on a class library for SkyOS lately. The progress isn't 
 overwhelming though, because there's issues that have to be thought well 
 through. Adding a garbage collector would speed things up alot, and all 
 the other fancy features of D wouldn't exactly hold me back either. Now 
 that I know about D, I don't really want to continue working on the  C++ 
 class library. I want to get D ported, and rewrite the library to use  D. 
 So, yeah! I wish both SkyOS and D the best future possible, and I 
 believe that mixing them is nothing more than a positive thing for the 
 both of them.


 It's interesting to note that other projects seem to be looking into new 
 languages to replace C/C++.  The GNOME project appears to be looking for a 
 new development language: www.osnews.com -- "Eiffel: Viable Candidate As a 
 Language for the GNOME Platform?"

 Looks like language devotees are jumping in to promote there language of 
 choice. :)

 Quite frankly, I think D fits the criteria better than most.

 -JJR


Better than all, I would say, given it's C/++ heritage and like syntax, 
support for 'close to the metal' programming and the fact that it is 
intended as a systems programming language (which Eiffel, really, is not). 
And I quote from wikipedia:

"Eiffel is a purely object-oriented language. Any coding which must be 
"close to the machine" is expected to be done in C."

Why in heck would they even be considering Eiffel for a project like 
GNOME?!? I've always thought GNOME was good technology surrounded by bad 
politics, and this just reinforces that feeling.
Nov 27 2005
prev sibling next sibling parent "Kris" <fu bar.com> writes:
"Walter Bright" <newshound digitalmars.com> wrote >

 "Casper Ellingsen" <noreply ellingsen.no> wrote in message
 news:op.s0tid8q9d9fset casper.studby.ntnu.no...

 By the way, the web page is back up. You can post in the developer forum
 if you want more details. Maybe you can convince Robert to port it. He's 
 a
 really smart guy, but he has lots to do, and doesn't see the point in
 porting D. He arguments that few people actually use it, it's future is
 unknown, and doesn't want to force a new language on people. I say, why
 not use the better language even though it's not as popular?


 The irony here is I could say exactly the same thing about SkyOS!


How true <g>
Nov 26 2005
prev sibling parent "Casper Ellingsen" <noreply ellingsen.no> writes:
On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 19:52:16 +0100, Walter Bright  =

<newshound digitalmars.com> wrote:


 "Casper Ellingsen" <noreply ellingsen.no> wrote in message
 news:op.s0tid8q9d9fset casper.studby.ntnu.no...

 By the way, the web page is back up. You can post in the developer fo=




rum

 if you want more details. Maybe you can convince Robert to port it.  =





 He's a
 really smart guy, but he has lots to do, and doesn't see the point in=





 porting D. He arguments that few people actually use it, it's future =




is

 unknown, and doesn't want to force a new language on people. I say, w=




hy

 not use the better language even though it's not as popular?


 The irony here is I could say exactly the same thing about SkyOS!

 The point is that those developers who would be interested in SkyOS ar=


e

 likely to be the same types of people who are interested in D - those
 interested in and willing to try new things outside the status quo.


I was tempted to say the same thing in my prior post.. ;)
-- =

Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
Nov 26 2005
prev sibling parent reply "Dave" <Dave_member pathlink.com> writes:
"Casper Ellingsen" <noreply ellingsen.no> wrote in message 
news:op.s0tid8q9d9fset casper.studby.ntnu.no...
On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 22:38:00 +0100, Walter Bright
<newshound digitalmars.com> wrote:


 So, what exactly is the "PE support" in SkyOS if it won't run PE
 executables?


I'd have to talk to Robert about that, but he's currently unavailable.


 What happens when you try it?


It says: 'path/dmd.app: not in executable format: I/O error'


 By the way, the web page is back up. You can post in the developer forum 
 if you want more details. Maybe you can convince Robert to port it. He's a 
 really smart guy, but he has lots to do, and doesn't see the point in



 porting D. He arguments that few people actually use it, it's future is 
 unknown, and doesn't want to force a new language on people. I say, why 
 not use the better language even though it's not as popular?


Heck, according to some pundits, C++'s future is unknown, which is part of 
the rationale behind D <g>

And I would venture a guess that D is used by more people than some other 
widely known languages; show him this (taken with a grain of salt, of 
course):

http://www.tiobe.com/tpci.htm

As for the 3rd argument, how is D being 'forced' on anyone by just including 
it in SkyOS? I don't understand that one.

-- 
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
Nov 27 2005
next sibling parent Holger <Holger_member pathlink.com> writes:
In article <dmd9e9$neh$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Dave says...


And I would venture a guess that D is used by more people than some other 
widely known languages; show him this (taken with a grain of salt, of 
course):

http://www.tiobe.com/tpci.htm


PL/SQL above VB.NET :) Yikes!

Holger
Nov 27 2005
prev sibling parent reply clayasaurus <clayasaurus gmail.com> writes:
Dave wrote:

 As for the 3rd argument, how is D being 'forced' on anyone by just including 
 it in SkyOS? I don't understand that one.


Simple. Once they realize how great D is, it will be impossible for them 
to use any other language! *muahahah*
Nov 27 2005
parent reply Dave <Dave_member pathlink.com> writes:
In article <dmdpgt$14ri$1 digitaldaemon.com>, clayasaurus says...

Dave wrote:

 As for the 3rd argument, how is D being 'forced' on anyone by just including 
 it in SkyOS? I don't understand that one.


Simple. Once they realize how great D is, it will be impossible for them 
to use any other language! *muahahah*


Hehheh, the other day I found myself prototyping a *Perl* script with D (long
story, but let's just say the app. had to be done in Perl). When's the last time
you heard of anyone doing *that* with C++ <g>
Nov 27 2005
parent Georg Wrede <georg.wrede nospam.org> writes:
Dave wrote:

 In article <dmdpgt$14ri$1 digitaldaemon.com>, clayasaurus says...
 

 Dave wrote:
 

 As for the 3rd argument, how is D being 'forced' on anyone by
 just including it in SkyOS? I don't understand that one.


 
 Simple. Once they realize how great D is, it will be impossible for
 them to use any other language! *muahahah*




LOLLL!!


 Hehheh, the other day I found myself prototyping a *Perl* script with
 D (long story, but let's just say the app. had to be done in Perl).
 When's the last time you heard of anyone doing *that* with C++ <g>


This really ought to be on the DMD pages as a Genuine User Testimonial.
Nov 27 2005
prev sibling parent reply "Casper Ellingsen" <noreply ellingsen.no> writes:
Porting D to SkyOS has been discussed in the SkyOS community, both on th=
e  =

forums, the irc developer channel and amongst members individually. Righ=
t  =

now, however, we seem to lack the one person who has enough time and  =

experience to actually do the port. Walter, I bet you're the one who kno=
ws  =

the language and the compiler the most. Do you think you could take the =
 =

time and effort to make an official port? Or at least help us along the =
 =

way? We, and me especially, would be very grateful.
-- =

Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
Nov 27 2005
parent reply "Walter Bright" <newshound digitalmars.com> writes:
I don't know, because I don't know how much work is involved. What about
GDC?
Nov 27 2005
parent reply "Casper Ellingsen" <noreply ellingsen.no> writes:
On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 19:35:14 +0100, Walter Bright  =

<newshound digitalmars.com> wrote:


 I don't know, because I don't know how much work is involved. What abo=


ut

 GDC?


I wouldn't know, because I don't know how much work is involved with  =

either of them. However, if GDC works properly (I haven't tried it  =

before), and is easier to port, I wouldn't mind using it instead. Hmm. S=
o  =

can you give GDC a try then? Would you need the GCC sources? Robert made=
  =

some changes to them as he ported GCC to SkyOS. He's going on a vacation=
  =

soon, so if we need them, we should get them before he leaves.
-- =

Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
Nov 27 2005
next sibling parent clayasaurus <clayasaurus gmail.com> writes:
Casper Ellingsen wrote:

 On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 19:35:14 +0100, Walter Bright  
 <newshound digitalmars.com> wrote:
 

 I don't know, because I don't know how much work is involved. What about
 GDC?


 
 I wouldn't know, because I don't know how much work is involved with  
 either of them. However, if GDC works properly (I haven't tried it  
 before), and is easier to port, I wouldn't mind using it instead. Hmm. 
 So  can you give GDC a try then? Would you need the GCC sources? Robert 
 made  some changes to them as he ported GCC to SkyOS. He's going on a 
 vacation  soon, so if we need them, we should get them before he leaves.


You might want to contact David in the D.gnu newsgroup about porting GDC 
to SkyOS, since he takes care of all the GDC stuff.

GDC's homepage is here http://home.earthlink.net/~dvdfrdmn/d/ .

Or you can try to figure out the build instructions for SkyOS yourself 
http://home.earthlink.net/~dvdfrdmn/d/INSTALL.html .

Goodluck.

~ Clay
Nov 27 2005
prev sibling parent reply David Friedman <d3rdclsmail_a_ _t_earthlink_d_._t_net> writes:
Casper Ellingsen wrote:

 On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 19:35:14 +0100, Walter Bright  
 <newshound digitalmars.com> wrote:
 

 I don't know, because I don't know how much work is involved. What about
 GDC?


 
 I wouldn't know, because I don't know how much work is involved with  
 either of them. However, if GDC works properly (I haven't tried it  
 before), and is easier to port, I wouldn't mind using it instead. Hmm. 
 So  can you give GDC a try then? Would you need the GCC sources? Robert 
 made  some changes to them as he ported GCC to SkyOS. He's going on a 
 vacation  soon, so if we need them, we should get them before he leaves.


I can add support for SkyOS.  I guess I'll need to actually install 
SkyOS first... Does the modified GCC source (or patches) come with the 
distribution?

David
Nov 27 2005
parent reply "Casper Ellingsen" <noreply ellingsen.no> writes:
On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 21:21:50 +0100, David Friedman  =

<d3rdclsmail_a_ _t_earthlink_d_._t_net> wrote:

 I can add support for SkyOS.  I guess I'll need to actually install  =



 SkyOS first... Does the modified GCC source (or patches) come with the=


  =


 distribution?


The first thing you have to do is to register on the SkyOS forums. Then =
 =

you have to give me your username so that I can make sure you get access=
  =

to the latest beta version. The modified GCC source is currently not  =

released on the cd, but I'm currently trying to get them directly from  =

Robert. Once all this is done, you should be settled. The actual hardwar=
e  =

support is still kind of limited, so installing it using vmware is  =

recommended.

I'll come back to you regarding the GCC source.
-- =

Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
Nov 27 2005
parent reply David Friedman <d3rdclsmail_a_ _t_earthlink_d_._t_net> writes:
Casper Ellingsen wrote:

 On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 21:21:50 +0100, David Friedman  
 <d3rdclsmail_a_ _t_earthlink_d_._t_net> wrote:
 

 I can add support for SkyOS.  I guess I'll need to actually install  
 SkyOS first... Does the modified GCC source (or patches) come with 
 the  distribution?


 
 The first thing you have to do is to register on the SkyOS forums. Then  
 you have to give me your username so that I can make sure you get 
 access  to the latest beta version. The modified GCC source is currently 
 not  released on the cd, but I'm currently trying to get them directly 
 from  Robert. Once all this is done, you should be settled. The actual 
 hardware  support is still kind of limited, so installing it using 
 vmware is  recommended.
 
 I'll come back to you regarding the GCC source.


I have registered as "dvdfrdmn"
Nov 27 2005
next sibling parent "Casper Ellingsen" <noreply ellingsen.no> writes:
On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 00:43:21 +0100, David Friedman  =

<d3rdclsmail_a_ _t_earthlink_d_._t_net> wrote:


 Casper Ellingsen wrote:

 On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 21:21:50 +0100, David Friedman   =





 <d3rdclsmail_a_ _t_earthlink_d_._t_net> wrote:


 I can add support for SkyOS.  I guess I'll need to actually install =






  =


 SkyOS first... Does the modified GCC source (or patches) come with  =







 the  distribution?


  The first thing you have to do is to register on the SkyOS forums.  =





 Then  you have to give me your username so that I can make sure you g=




et  =


 access  to the latest beta version. The modified GCC source is  =





 currently not  released on the cd, but I'm currently trying to get th=




em  =


 directly from  Robert. Once all this is done, you should be settled. =




 =


 The actual hardware  support is still kind of limited, so installing =




it  =


 using vmware is  recommended.
  I'll come back to you regarding the GCC source.


 I have registered as "dvdfrdmn"


I've requested beta access. I'll let you know when it's been arranged.
-- =

Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
Nov 27 2005
prev sibling parent reply "Casper Ellingsen" <noreply ellingsen.no> writes:
On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 00:43:21 +0100, David Friedman  =

<d3rdclsmail_a_ _t_earthlink_d_._t_net> wrote:


 Casper Ellingsen wrote:

 On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 21:21:50 +0100, David Friedman   =





 <d3rdclsmail_a_ _t_earthlink_d_._t_net> wrote:


 I can add support for SkyOS.  I guess I'll need to actually install =






  =


 SkyOS first... Does the modified GCC source (or patches) come with  =







 the  distribution?


  The first thing you have to do is to register on the SkyOS forums.  =





 Then  you have to give me your username so that I can make sure you g=




et  =


 access  to the latest beta version. The modified GCC source is  =





 currently not  released on the cd, but I'm currently trying to get th=




em  =


 directly from  Robert. Once all this is done, you should be settled. =




 =


 The actual hardware  support is still kind of limited, so installing =




it  =


 using vmware is  recommended.
  I'll come back to you regarding the GCC source.


 I have registered as "dvdfrdmn"


You now have access to the latest beta. You can download it from the bet=
a  =

forum (General Discussion (beta testers)). Sign on with your username an=
d  =

password, and read the top post (SkyOS beta 9 available for download). Y=
ou  =

need a registration serial, which can be found in the BetaCenter, from  =

which you actually download the beta. It is recommended to install SkyOS=
  =

on a VMware virtual machine, since VMware should be fully supported by  =

SkyOS.

The modified GCC sources can be downloaded from  =

http://www.skyos.org/software/gcc-3.4.0.zip. GCC is cross-compiled from =
 =

Cygwin to SkyOS, since there is no native SkyOS to SkyOS support for GCC=
  =

yet.

Good luck! ;)

PS: Is it possible to make a cross-compiler for Windows that will compil=
e  =

and link SkyOS executable files?
-- =

Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
Nov 29 2005
parent reply David Friedman <d3rdclsmail_a_ _t_earthlink_d_._t_net> writes:
Casper Ellingsen wrote:

 On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 00:43:21 +0100, David Friedman  
 <d3rdclsmail_a_ _t_earthlink_d_._t_net> wrote:
 

 Casper Ellingsen wrote:


 On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 21:21:50 +0100, David Friedman   
 <d3rdclsmail_a_ _t_earthlink_d_._t_net> wrote:


 I can add support for SkyOS.  I guess I'll need to actually 
 install   SkyOS first... Does the modified GCC source (or patches) 
 come with  the  distribution?


  The first thing you have to do is to register on the SkyOS forums.  
 Then  you have to give me your username so that I can make sure you 
 get  access  to the latest beta version. The modified GCC source is  
 currently not  released on the cd, but I'm currently trying to get 
 them  directly from  Robert. Once all this is done, you should be 
 settled.  The actual hardware  support is still kind of limited, so 
 installing it  using vmware is  recommended.
  I'll come back to you regarding the GCC source.



 I have registered as "dvdfrdmn"


 
 You now have access to the latest beta. You can download it from the 
 beta  forum (General Discussion (beta testers)). Sign on with your 
 username and  password, and read the top post (SkyOS beta 9 available 
 for download). You  need a registration serial, which can be found in 
 the BetaCenter, from  which you actually download the beta. It is 
 recommended to install SkyOS  on a VMware virtual machine, since VMware 
 should be fully supported by  SkyOS.
 
 The modified GCC sources can be downloaded from  
 http://www.skyos.org/software/gcc-3.4.0.zip. GCC is cross-compiled from  
 Cygwin to SkyOS, since there is no native SkyOS to SkyOS support for 
 GCC  yet.
 
 Good luck! ;)
 


Thanks for getting me set up.  I have SkyOS running now.


 PS: Is it possible to make a cross-compiler for Windows that will 
 compile  and link SkyOS executable files?


Do you mean plain Windows without Cygwin?  If so, it should be possible. 
  Otherwise, the GCC D compiler for SkyOS will work the same as the 
existing C and C++ cross-compilers.

David
Nov 29 2005
next sibling parent "Casper Ellingsen" <noreply ellingsen.no> writes:
On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 06:14:46 +0100, David Friedman  =

<d3rdclsmail_a_ _t_earthlink_d_._t_net> wrote:

 Thanks for getting me set up.  I have SkyOS running now.


You're welcome.


 PS: Is it possible to make a cross-compiler for Windows that will  =





 compile  and link SkyOS executable files?


 Do you mean plain Windows without Cygwin?  If so, it should be possibl=


e.  =


   Otherwise, the GCC D compiler for SkyOS will work the same as the  =



 existing C and C++ cross-compilers.


The existing cross-compilers that I use for C and C++ development is use=
d
with Cygwin. What I want is D capabilities added to this compiler, so th=
at
I can develop programs in all three languages for SkyOS using Windows.
-- =

Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
Nov 29 2005
prev sibling parent reply "Casper Ellingsen" <noreply ellingsen.no> writes:
Any luck yet, David?
-- 
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
Dec 01 2005
parent reply David Friedman <d3rdclsmail_a_ _t_earthlink_d_._t_net> writes:
Casper Ellingsen wrote:

 Any luck yet, David?


I have a C/C++ cross-compiler (Mac OS X -> SkyOS) so far.  I am working 
on the SkyOS-specific changes for Phobos.

David
Dec 01 2005
parent reply "Casper Ellingsen" <noreply ellingsen.no> writes:
On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 05:07:47 +0100, David Friedman  =

<d3rdclsmail_a_ _t_earthlink_d_._t_net> wrote:


 Casper Ellingsen wrote:

 Any luck yet, David?


 I have a C/C++ cross-compiler (Mac OS X -> SkyOS) so far.  I am workin=


g  =


 on the SkyOS-specific changes for Phobos.

 David


Good job.

Any more news at this time? The exam period is almost over, and it would=
  =

be awesome if I could play with D on SkyOS during the Christmas vacation=
.  =

:)
-- =

Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
Dec 07 2005
parent reply David Friedman <d3rdclsmail_a_ _t_earthlink_d_._t_net> writes:
Casper Ellingsen wrote:

 On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 05:07:47 +0100, David Friedman  
 <d3rdclsmail_a_ _t_earthlink_d_._t_net> wrote:
 

 Casper Ellingsen wrote:


 Any luck yet, David?



 I have a C/C++ cross-compiler (Mac OS X -> SkyOS) so far.  I am 
 working  on the SkyOS-specific changes for Phobos.

 David


 
 Good job.
 
 Any more news at this time? The exam period is almost over, and it 
 would  be awesome if I could play with D on SkyOS during the Christmas 
 vacation.  :)


I'm making progress.  The next release should have at least a native 
SkyOS compiler.

David
Dec 07 2005
parent reply "Casper Ellingsen" <no reply.com> writes:
On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 02:16:10 +0100, David Friedman  
<d3rdclsmail_a_ _t_earthlink_d_._t_net> wrote:


 Casper Ellingsen wrote:

 On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 05:07:47 +0100, David Friedman   
 <d3rdclsmail_a_ _t_earthlink_d_._t_net> wrote:


 Casper Ellingsen wrote:


 Any luck yet, David?



 I have a C/C++ cross-compiler (Mac OS X -> SkyOS) so far.  I am  
 working  on the SkyOS-specific changes for Phobos.

 David


  Good job.
  Any more news at this time? The exam period is almost over, and it  
 would  be awesome if I could play with D on SkyOS during the Christmas  
 vacation.  :)


 I'm making progress.  The next release should have at least a native  
 SkyOS compiler.

 David


Update please? :)

-- 
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
Dec 20 2005
next sibling parent reply David Friedman <d3rdclsmail_a_ _t_earthlink_d_._t_net> writes:
Casper Ellingsen wrote:

 On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 02:16:10 +0100, David Friedman  
 <d3rdclsmail_a_ _t_earthlink_d_._t_net> wrote:
 

 Casper Ellingsen wrote:


 On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 05:07:47 +0100, David Friedman   
 <d3rdclsmail_a_ _t_earthlink_d_._t_net> wrote:


 Casper Ellingsen wrote:


 Any luck yet, David?




 I have a C/C++ cross-compiler (Mac OS X -> SkyOS) so far.  I am  
 working  on the SkyOS-specific changes for Phobos.

 David


  Good job.
  Any more news at this time? The exam period is almost over, and it  
 would  be awesome if I could play with D on SkyOS during the 
 Christmas  vacation.  :)



 I'm making progress.  The next release should have at least a native  
 SkyOS compiler.

 David


 
 
 Update please? :)
 


If I don't get a full release out this weekend, I'll post a binary 
package.  The problem I have now is that the OS doesn't provide support 
for garbage collection in multiple threads.  What's the best way to get 
Robert to add new features?  Ask on the message board?

David
Dec 22 2005
parent "Casper Ellingsen" <no reply.com> writes:
On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 19:06:19 +0100, David Friedman  
<d3rdclsmail_a_ _t_earthlink_d_._t_net> wrote:


 The problem I have now is that the OS doesn't provide support for  
 garbage collection in multiple threads.  What's the best way to get  
 Robert to add new features?  Ask on the message board?


Make a new thread in the developer forum. Make it as detailed as possible,  
and I'll make sure he reads it.
-- 
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
Dec 23 2005
prev sibling parent reply David Friedman <d3rdclsmail_a_ _t_earthlink_d_._t_net> writes:
I have uploaded an 'unstable' version of GDC for SkyOS:

http://home.earthlink.net/~dvdfrdmn/d/gdc-skyos-unstable.pkg

It installs to /boot/programs/gdc.  Add /boot/programs/gdc/bin to your 
PATH and you will have the 'gdc' and 'gdmd' commands.

Multithreading is very dicey right now, but other than that, it should 
be usable.  Good luck!

David
Dec 26 2005
parent reply "Casper Ellingsen" <no reply.com> writes:
On Mon, 26 Dec 2005 19:07:49 +0100, David Friedman  
<d3rdclsmail_a_ _t_earthlink_d_._t_net> wrote:


 I have uploaded an 'unstable' version of GDC for SkyOS:

 http://home.earthlink.net/~dvdfrdmn/d/gdc-skyos-unstable.pkg

 It installs to /boot/programs/gdc.  Add /boot/programs/gdc/bin to your  
 PATH and you will have the 'gdc' and 'gdmd' commands.

 Multithreading is very dicey right now, but other than that, it should  
 be usable.  Good luck!

 David


Awesome! I'll try it once I get back home. Thanks! I'm already working on
a project which I think the D community will learn to love. That is if
I actually manage to do it. Can't tell you what it is yet though.. ;)

Merry Christmas!
-- 
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Dec 26 2005
parent reply "Casper Ellingsen" <no reply.com> writes:
On Tue, 27 Dec 2005 00:16:05 +0100, Casper Ellingsen <no reply.com> wrote:


 On Mon, 26 Dec 2005 19:07:49 +0100, David Friedman  
 <d3rdclsmail_a_ _t_earthlink_d_._t_net> wrote:


 I have uploaded an 'unstable' version of GDC for SkyOS:

 http://home.earthlink.net/~dvdfrdmn/d/gdc-skyos-unstable.pkg

 It installs to /boot/programs/gdc.  Add /boot/programs/gdc/bin to your  
 PATH and you will have the 'gdc' and 'gdmd' commands.

 Multithreading is very dicey right now, but other than that, it should  
 be usable.  Good luck!

 David


 Awesome! I'll try it once I get back home.


I got to try GDC on SkyOS some today, and so far it works almost  
perfectly. The only remark I have is that the compiler complains that it  
can't find 'libgphobos.spec'. When I copy the file from  
/boot/programs/gdc/lib/ to my working folder, it works. Is this a pilot  
error on my side, or does the file need to be referenced differently  
somewhere?

Also, did you get Robert to implement to stuff you needed to get  
multithreading working properly?
-- 
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Dec 27 2005
parent reply David Friedman <dvdfrdmn users.ess-eff.net> writes:
Casper Ellingsen wrote:

 On Tue, 27 Dec 2005 00:16:05 +0100, Casper Ellingsen <no reply.com> wrote:
 

 On Mon, 26 Dec 2005 19:07:49 +0100, David Friedman  
 <d3rdclsmail_a_ _t_earthlink_d_._t_net> wrote:


 I have uploaded an 'unstable' version of GDC for SkyOS:

 http://home.earthlink.net/~dvdfrdmn/d/gdc-skyos-unstable.pkg

 It installs to /boot/programs/gdc.  Add /boot/programs/gdc/bin to 
 your  PATH and you will have the 'gdc' and 'gdmd' commands.

 Multithreading is very dicey right now, but other than that, it 
 should  be usable.  Good luck!

 David



 Awesome! I'll try it once I get back home.


 
 
 I got to try GDC on SkyOS some today, and so far it works almost  
 perfectly. The only remark I have is that the compiler complains that 
 it  can't find 'libgphobos.spec'. When I copy the file from  
 /boot/programs/gdc/lib/ to my working folder, it works. Is this a pilot  
 error on my side, or does the file need to be referenced differently  
 somewhere?
 


Type this command:
mv /boot/programs/gdc/lib/libgphobos.spec 
/boot/programs/gdc/lib/gcc/i386-skyos-pe/3.4.4/

I'll update the package to include this fix.


 Also, did you get Robert to implement to stuff you needed to get  
 multithreading working properly?



Yes, Robert said he would make the changes.  I also found a workaround 
to do what I need, but I'm still seeing crashes.

David
Dec 27 2005
parent "Casper Ellingsen" <no reply.com> writes:
On Tue, 27 Dec 2005 13:47:09 +0100, David Friedman  
<dvdfrdmn users.ess-eff.net> wrote:


 Also, did you get Robert to implement to stuff you needed to get   
 multithreading working properly?



 Yes, Robert said he would make the changes.  I also found a workaround  
 to do what I need, but I'm still seeing crashes.


There's a new alpha release of SkyOS available now, with some of the  
changes you asked for implemented. Here's an excerpt of the change log:

28th, dec 2005:
Implemented pthread_detach
Implemented pthread_join
Implemented pthread_create detached state
Fixed ThreadCreate. Save return pid in local variable instead of using  
thread stucture which may have been freed already

I don't know if you have alpha access or not. If not, leave a message in  
the 'Threads and Garbage Collection' thread, and I'm pretty sure you'll  
get access.
-- 
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
Jan 15 2006