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digitalmars.D - Adoption of D

reply "Charlie Patterson" <charliep1 SPAMIDDYSPAMexcite.com> writes:
I think to get D adopted more, someone in the know and with the skills (Walter?
Matt?) has
to write the book.  At least the first draft for on-line distribution.  I've
been through
the pages at the site, but nothing makes a new language stick like (small)
examples and
problems being solved.  The original book for C comes to mind as a short, sweet
introduction.  I know D has more features, but then the book could be 25%
bigger.

It wouldn't need to explain object theory, any more than the original C book
explained
programming style.  But it would need to use objects in a few object-worthy
situations.

That kind of thing.  My two cents.
Feb 18 2005
next sibling parent reply John Demme <me teqdruid.com> writes:
Actually, Matthew and Walter are co-writing a book on D... errr... are 
planning on co-writing a book on D... I think they're waiting for 
something closer to 1.0 and/or procrastinating.

John

Charlie Patterson wrote:

 I think to get D adopted more, someone in the know and with the skills
(Walter? Matt?) has
 to write the book.  At least the first draft for on-line distribution.  I've
been through
 the pages at the site, but nothing makes a new language stick like (small)
examples and
 problems being solved.  The original book for C comes to mind as a short, sweet
 introduction.  I know D has more features, but then the book could be 25%
bigger.
 
 It wouldn't need to explain object theory, any more than the original C book
explained
 programming style.  But it would need to use objects in a few object-worthy
situations.
 
 That kind of thing.  My two cents.
Feb 18 2005
next sibling parent "Matthew" <admin.hat stlsoft.dot.org> writes:
"John Demme" <me teqdruid.com> wrote in message
news:cv6m5l$1h96$2 digitaldaemon.com...

 Actually, Matthew and Walter are co-writing a book on D... errr... are
planning on co-writing a book on D... I think 
 they're waiting for something closer to 1.0 and/or procrastinating.


Actually, we are not waiting any longer. Monday's the day we start. (Assuming I
can get the three libs I'm killing 
myself on out before then. <g>)
Feb 19 2005
prev sibling parent "Matthew" <admin.hat stlsoft.dot.org> writes:
"John Demme" <me teqdruid.com> wrote in message
news:cv6m5l$1h96$2 digitaldaemon.com...

 Actually, Matthew and Walter are co-writing a book on D... errr... are
planning on co-writing a book on D... I think
 they're waiting for something closer to 1.0 and/or procrastinating.


Actually, we are not waiting any longer. Monday's the day we start. (Assuming I
can get the three libs I'm killing
myself on out before then. <g>)
Feb 19 2005
prev sibling parent reply "Matthew" <admin.hat stlsoft.dot.org> writes:
I think to get D adopted more, someone in the know and with the skills (Walter?
Matt?) has
 to write the book.  At least the first draft for on-line distribution.  I've
been through
 the pages at the site, but nothing makes a new language stick like (small)
examples and
 problems being solved.  The original book for C comes to mind as a short, sweet
 introduction.  I know D has more features, but then the book could be 25%
bigger.


Walter and I _are_ (about to be) writing a book together on D, called D
Programming Distilled, for Addison-Wesley.

We're just sorting through the contract with the publisher, and then we'll get
cracking. The intention is for it to be 
out before the end of the year.

I/we also plan to write, in a couple of years, The D Programming Language, and
have discussed that with AW. For now, 
though, what's needed is a small (~250 pages) introductory volume.

The Dr .....
Feb 19 2005
parent reply "Charlie Patterson" <charliep1 SPAMIDDYSPAMexcite.com> writes:
From: "Matthew" <admin.hat stlsoft.dot.org>



I think to get D adopted more, someone in the know and with the skills (Walter?
Matt?)




has

 to write the book.
 ...





 Walter and I _are_ (about to be) writing a book together on D, called D
Programming


Distilled, for Addison-Wesley.


 We're just sorting through the contract with the publisher, and then we'll get
cracking.


The intention is for it to be

 out before the end of the year.



 I/we also plan to write, in a couple of years, The D Programming Language, and
have


discussed that with AW. For now,

 though, what's needed is a small (~250 pages) introductory volume.


Excellent!  As motivation, I think you'll see the language triple its user base
the day
this book comes out.

I'm not sure I know what the "distilled" series is about, but I hope it is full
of
practical examples using language features, instead of a feature list expounded
upon (like
the site).  But also avoid the "this is how you should do it; oh an never do
this"
attitude of Stroustrup which makes a book become way too long.  People will
glean how to
do it from good examples.
Feb 19 2005
next sibling parent reply "Charlie Patterson" <charliep1 SPAMIDDYSPAMexcite.com> writes:
Oh and also... (-:

I would avoid preaching about how C++ got it wrong or any such topic which will
get big.
People either don't understand and don't care, or will pick it up implicitly. 
For
example, I think by now most programmers that care realize that single
inheritance with
interfaces can handle 98% of the noble uses of classes.  And that getting that
last 2%
isn't worth killing your compiler writer, or worth learning 20 esoteric rules
for lattice
inheritance.

I'm not trying to micromanage. (-:  Just some ideas.
Feb 19 2005
parent reply "Charles" <no email.com> writes:
 I'm not trying to micromanage. (-:  Just some ideas.


I agree completely, glad you came out and said it :).  Also Matt / W , if
this is too personal just let me know ;) , what kind of contract do
technical books get ( for royalties etc ) ?  Since D has always been free I
hope Walter gets a hefty sum off the book ( Id say the same for Matt but
imperfect has set him up pretty well I imagine :) ).

Charlie


"Charlie Patterson" <charliep1 SPAMIDDYSPAMexcite.com> wrote in message
news:cv7n9g$3090$1 digitaldaemon.com...

 Oh and also... (-:

 I would avoid preaching about how C++ got it wrong or any such topic which


will get big.

 People either don't understand and don't care, or will pick it up


implicitly.  For

 example, I think by now most programmers that care realize that single


inheritance with

 interfaces can handle 98% of the noble uses of classes.  And that getting


that last 2%

 isn't worth killing your compiler writer, or worth learning 20 esoteric


rules for lattice

 inheritance.

 I'm not trying to micromanage. (-:  Just some ideas.
Feb 19 2005
parent reply "Matthew" <admin stlsoft.dot.dot.dot.dot.org> writes:
"Charles" <no email.com> wrote in message
news:cv8sdn$1g8n$1 digitaldaemon.com...

 I'm not trying to micromanage. (-:  Just some ideas.


 I agree completely, glad you came out and said it :).  Also Matt / W ,
 if
 this is too personal just let me know ;) , what kind of contract do
 technical books get ( for royalties etc ) ?


Somewhere between 10 and 20% of *NET* royalties.


  Since D has always been
 free I
 hope Walter gets a hefty sum off the book ( Id say the same for Matt
 but
 imperfect has set him up pretty well I imagine :) ).


Alas, your assumptions are (in a nice way) laughable.

A nicely selling tech book is one that does >=20,000 copies. Given that
the author(s) sees about $1-2 from each sale, there's no way on Bob's
green earth that one can *ever* directly earn back the time spent in
doing the writing. I reckon the _best_ I can hope for with Imperfect C++
is to earn back 4% of what I'd likely have earned during the same time
spent; with my forthcoming books - DPD and XSTL - my hope is that
this'll maybe rise to something ~15%, but that may be pig flying stuff.

The motivation has to be internal, and non-financial. One might say that
one writes for the good of the community, or for the challenge, or for
the notoriety, etc. etc. But whatever it is, it ain't cash!

But having said that, I do hope you all prove me wrong by recommending
IC++, DPD and XSTL to *everyone* you meet. <CG>

The Dr .....


P.S. If any of you ever have the pleasure of meeting my wife - the
social adept of the family - please do *not* mention those percentages
above. We've, er, never discussed it in such bald terms ...



 Charlie


 "Charlie Patterson" <charliep1 SPAMIDDYSPAMexcite.com> wrote in
 message
 news:cv7n9g$3090$1 digitaldaemon.com...

 Oh and also... (-:

 I would avoid preaching about how C++ got it wrong or any such topic
 which


 will get big.

 People either don't understand and don't care, or will pick it up


 implicitly.  For

 example, I think by now most programmers that care realize that
 single


 inheritance with

 interfaces can handle 98% of the noble uses of classes.  And that
 getting


 that last 2%

 isn't worth killing your compiler writer, or worth learning 20
 esoteric


 rules for lattice

 inheritance.

 I'm not trying to micromanage. (-:  Just some ideas.
Feb 19 2005
parent Georg Wrede <georg.wrede nospam.org> writes:
Matthew wrote:

 P.S. If any of you ever have the pleasure of meeting my wife - the
 social adept of the family - please do *not* mention those percentages
 above. We've, er, never discussed it in such bald terms ...


:-) Been there, too. Damn, everything really interesting precludes
financial gain. It's so wrong.

I bought imperfect to make a contribution. It's an excellent book,
and one can immediately see that it has taken a lot of work to
get together. Unlike a lot of the brick size stuff that takes
acres of dead trees while being feather weight in substance. :-(

While I don't need the book (because I'm not going to touch any
C++ stuff if I can avoid it), I still read it for entertainment.
Everything in the book makes me glad I've found D!!

Imperfect, like Meyers' Effective C++, are excellent plugs for D!
Feb 21 2005
prev sibling parent Georg Wrede <georg.wrede nospam.org> writes:
Charlie Patterson wrote:

 Excellent!  As motivation, I think you'll see the language triple its user
base the day
 this book comes out.
 
 I'm not sure I know what the "distilled" series is about, but I hope it is
full of
 practical examples using language features, instead of a feature list
expounded upon (like
 the site).  But also avoid the "this is how you should do it; oh an never do
this"
 attitude of Stroustrup which makes a book become way too long.  People will
glean how to
 do it from good examples.


Heh, the way C++ is today, Stroustrup _has_ to write it like that.  :-)

In the D book, the things that are "usual" (read: like C, Java, etc.)
could be gone through real quickly, and then the D-specific things
would be explained in depth.

Not only what and how, but why and when!
And plenty of examples!

Oh, and get the first edition out with a "just do it" mentality.
Within 12 months from 1.0, D will have gained a lot more stuff,
and then you can sell 2nd edition again to all, plus the many
new readers!   :-)
Feb 21 2005