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digitalmars.D - IDE for D will be made...oh yes...it will be made

reply James Dunne <jdunne4 bradley.edu> writes:
That does it.

I'm making an IDE for D.

This will consume my life.

It will be GUI (or CUI) independent.

I'll start out with a CUI for now on Linux using curses (probably the nice
dcurses port).

I will use a straight-forward approach which everyone is familiar with.  No more
God-awful keystroke combinations impossible to remember (:q, :w, I, D, K, Y,
wtf?).  I will use standard CTRL-C, CTRL-X, CTRL-V, CTRL-Z, SHIFT-ARROWS,
CTRL-INS, SHIFT-INS, SHIFT-DEL, etc.  Good ol' Windows keys that everyone is
familiar with.

There will be intellisense (or whatever the non-copyrighted term for it is)
support for D naturally with popup windows (yes, on a CUI).  This is my biggest
crutch now as a programmer.  I need it!

Mouse support thru curses initially (xterm-style), and of course thru the GUI
when its time comes.

Regular-expression string matching and replacement will be used.

MDI or SDI?  Can't decide yet.


For now, I will start simple, as it is the best approach for one single human
with limited time and skool-work.

Game plan:
* Get basic text editor up on curses on Linux.


Please attach your feature requests below.  This is just a preliminary list.
I'm sick and tired of seing IDEs being bastardized out of Eclipse, Jedit, Visual
C++, etc.  BTW, my def of an IDE is an intelligent editor (that doesn't assume
itself smarter than you *cough cough*) with project support and in-editor
compilation (thru hotkeys and menu-commands).

I'd like some SVN space to work with, perhaps the guys at www.dsource.org would
be kind enough to host!  Although for now I can dev on my own box.

Regards,
James Dunne
Nov 10 2004
next sibling parent reply Ant <Ant_member pathlink.com> writes:
In article <cmsme7$1813$1 digitaldaemon.com>, James Dunne says...


 BTW, my def of an IDE is an intelligent editor (that doesn't assume
itself smarter than you *cough cough*)


couldn't agree more ;)


 with project support and in-editor
compilation (thru hotkeys and menu-commands).


consider using leds to develop it!

http://leds.sourceforge.net

Ant
Nov 10 2004
parent reply James Dunne <jdunne4 bradley.edu> writes:
In article <cmtako$26tr$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Ant says...

In article <cmsme7$1813$1 digitaldaemon.com>, James Dunne says...


 BTW, my def of an IDE is an intelligent editor (that doesn't assume
itself smarter than you *cough cough*)


couldn't agree more ;)


 with project support and in-editor
compilation (thru hotkeys and menu-commands).


consider using leds to develop it!

http://leds.sourceforge.net

Ant



Thanks for the post; I'll consider leds in the future.  I don't do much Linux
GUI development with GTK, and by much I mean none at all.  When the CUI is done,
I'll definitely port over to DUI (using leds) and DFL (nice Win32 forms
library).

I do most of my development on my own Mini-ITX system running Debian that I
remote into from my main Windows machine.  So a CUI appeals to me, since I like
using VIM and EMACS, but never liked all the keystrokes and the horrible way VIM
handles copy/paste.

Any suggestions on intellisense would be nice.  Should I use ctags?  XML format
document like Kate (KDE) uses?

Regards,
James Dunne
Nov 10 2004
next sibling parent Ant <Ant_member pathlink.com> writes:
In article <cmtqq7$2vcg$1 digitaldaemon.com>, James Dunne says...

Any suggestions on intellisense would be nice.  Should I use ctags?  XML format
document like Kate (KDE) uses?


I think the way to go is to use the dmd front end.
if you are familiar with C++ there is no question.

actually the code (dmd\src\parse.c) is quite readable!
but I thing the difficulty is to intergrate the thing
into your project (just guessing, I never really took a good look at it).

Walter, is it time already to convert it to D?
Any one started it?
I might take look at that...

Ant
Nov 10 2004
prev sibling parent Ant <Ant_member pathlink.com> writes:
In article <cmtqq7$2vcg$1 digitaldaemon.com>, James Dunne says...

Any suggestions on intellisense would be nice.  Should I use ctags?  XML format
document like Kate (KDE) uses?


I think the way to go is to use the dmd front end.
if you are familiar with C++ there is no question.

actually the code (dmd\src\parse.c) is quite readable!
but I thing the difficulty is to intergrate the thing
into your project (just guessing, I never really took a good look at it).

Walter, is it time already to convert it to D?
Any one started it?
I might take look at that...
(I'll post this on a separate thread)

Ant
PS did I post this already? sorry if a did...
Nov 10 2004
prev sibling next sibling parent reply "Walter" <newshound digitalmars.com> writes:
Great! If you need a good, portable, simple starting point, try the
Microemacs source code downloadable from www.digitalmars.com.



"James Dunne" <jdunne4 bradley.edu> wrote in message
news:cmsme7$1813$1 digitaldaemon.com...

 That does it.

 I'm making an IDE for D.

 This will consume my life.

 It will be GUI (or CUI) independent.

 I'll start out with a CUI for now on Linux using curses (probably the nice
 dcurses port).

 I will use a straight-forward approach which everyone is familiar with.


No more

 God-awful keystroke combinations impossible to remember (:q, :w, I, D, K,


Y,

 wtf?).  I will use standard CTRL-C, CTRL-X, CTRL-V, CTRL-Z, SHIFT-ARROWS,
 CTRL-INS, SHIFT-INS, SHIFT-DEL, etc.  Good ol' Windows keys that everyone


is

 familiar with.

 There will be intellisense (or whatever the non-copyrighted term for it


is)

 support for D naturally with popup windows (yes, on a CUI).  This is my


biggest

 crutch now as a programmer.  I need it!

 Mouse support thru curses initially (xterm-style), and of course thru the


GUI

 when its time comes.

 Regular-expression string matching and replacement will be used.

 MDI or SDI?  Can't decide yet.


 For now, I will start simple, as it is the best approach for one single


human

 with limited time and skool-work.

 Game plan:
 * Get basic text editor up on curses on Linux.


 Please attach your feature requests below.  This is just a preliminary


list.

 I'm sick and tired of seing IDEs being bastardized out of Eclipse, Jedit,


Visual

 C++, etc.  BTW, my def of an IDE is an intelligent editor (that doesn't


assume

 itself smarter than you *cough cough*) with project support and in-editor
 compilation (thru hotkeys and menu-commands).

 I'd like some SVN space to work with, perhaps the guys at www.dsource.org


would

 be kind enough to host!  Although for now I can dev on my own box.

 Regards,
 James Dunne
Nov 10 2004
parent James Dunne <jdunne4 bradley.edu> writes:
Thanks a lot for that, Walter.  MicroEmacs should prove to be useful.  I was up
til 3am last night wrestling with libncurses5 in C... talk about a nightmare.  I
got a preliminary editor window with mouse-support working.  However, their
key-bindings are a joke.  HOME/END and PGUP/PGDOWN don't work yet, but DELETE
and BACKSPACE do.  Maybe I'll just throw that all away and see what I've got
here in MicroEmacs.

In article <cmumkl$1370$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Walter says...

Great! If you need a good, portable, simple starting point, try the
Microemacs source code downloadable from www.digitalmars.com.



"James Dunne" <jdunne4 bradley.edu> wrote in message
news:cmsme7$1813$1 digitaldaemon.com...

 That does it.

 I'm making an IDE for D.

 This will consume my life.

 It will be GUI (or CUI) independent.

 I'll start out with a CUI for now on Linux using curses (probably the nice
 dcurses port).

 I will use a straight-forward approach which everyone is familiar with.


No more

 God-awful keystroke combinations impossible to remember (:q, :w, I, D, K,


Y,

 wtf?).  I will use standard CTRL-C, CTRL-X, CTRL-V, CTRL-Z, SHIFT-ARROWS,
 CTRL-INS, SHIFT-INS, SHIFT-DEL, etc.  Good ol' Windows keys that everyone


is

 familiar with.

 There will be intellisense (or whatever the non-copyrighted term for it


is)

 support for D naturally with popup windows (yes, on a CUI).  This is my


biggest

 crutch now as a programmer.  I need it!

 Mouse support thru curses initially (xterm-style), and of course thru the


GUI

 when its time comes.

 Regular-expression string matching and replacement will be used.

 MDI or SDI?  Can't decide yet.


 For now, I will start simple, as it is the best approach for one single


human

 with limited time and skool-work.

 Game plan:
 * Get basic text editor up on curses on Linux.


 Please attach your feature requests below.  This is just a preliminary


list.

 I'm sick and tired of seing IDEs being bastardized out of Eclipse, Jedit,


Visual

 C++, etc.  BTW, my def of an IDE is an intelligent editor (that doesn't


assume

 itself smarter than you *cough cough*) with project support and in-editor
 compilation (thru hotkeys and menu-commands).

 I'd like some SVN space to work with, perhaps the guys at www.dsource.org


would

 be kind enough to host!  Although for now I can dev on my own box.

 Regards,
 James Dunne




Regards,
James Dunne
Nov 11 2004
prev sibling next sibling parent reply "Jaap Geurts" <jaapsen hotmail.com> writes:
Hi James,

I made a setup for a curses window-ing library. It's functional, some of the
structure is there. It's somehow insprired by the Java Swing library..
If you are interested to take a look at, please let me know. I'm willing to
make it GPL.

Jaap


"James Dunne" <jdunne4 bradley.edu> wrote in message
news:cmsme7$1813$1 digitaldaemon.com...

 That does it.

 I'm making an IDE for D.

 This will consume my life.

 It will be GUI (or CUI) independent.

 I'll start out with a CUI for now on Linux using curses (probably the nice
 dcurses port).

 I will use a straight-forward approach which everyone is familiar with.


No more

 God-awful keystroke combinations impossible to remember (:q, :w, I, D, K,


Y,

 wtf?).  I will use standard CTRL-C, CTRL-X, CTRL-V, CTRL-Z, SHIFT-ARROWS,
 CTRL-INS, SHIFT-INS, SHIFT-DEL, etc.  Good ol' Windows keys that everyone


is

 familiar with.

 There will be intellisense (or whatever the non-copyrighted term for it


is)

 support for D naturally with popup windows (yes, on a CUI).  This is my


biggest

 crutch now as a programmer.  I need it!

 Mouse support thru curses initially (xterm-style), and of course thru the


GUI

 when its time comes.

 Regular-expression string matching and replacement will be used.

 MDI or SDI?  Can't decide yet.


 For now, I will start simple, as it is the best approach for one single


human

 with limited time and skool-work.

 Game plan:
 * Get basic text editor up on curses on Linux.


 Please attach your feature requests below.  This is just a preliminary


list.

 I'm sick and tired of seing IDEs being bastardized out of Eclipse, Jedit,


Visual

 C++, etc.  BTW, my def of an IDE is an intelligent editor (that doesn't


assume

 itself smarter than you *cough cough*) with project support and in-editor
 compilation (thru hotkeys and menu-commands).

 I'd like some SVN space to work with, perhaps the guys at www.dsource.org


would

 be kind enough to host!  Although for now I can dev on my own box.

 Regards,
 James Dunne
Nov 11 2004
parent reply James Dunne <jdunne4 bradley.edu> writes:
Well, that all depends on what language you have it implemented for and how far
you've gone with it.  Do you have mouse support?  Do you have keypad support?
I've never used Java let alone its Swing Library, but I have heard of it and
have a general idea of what it is.

I'd be mostly interested in developing with C, since I find that D doesn't have
much of an automatic build processing tool, and I absolutely hate C++.  I've
tried dmake and found it only works sometimes under Linux.  I've tried a-a-p in
Linux and got confused, plus I don't want to be lugging around a huge Python
install just to build a freakin project.  Any suggestions here?

<rant>
However, on the C side of things, what is up with automake?  What a JOKE!!  No
support for subdirectories?  At least that's the impression I've gotten from it;
and there was no doc on how to separate modules into subdirectories without
compiling them as "supporting libraries."  How sad.  Do I have to write my own
f--king toolset?  Sometimes it just surprisies me with what we have to live with
as developers.  Hence the reason I'm starting my own D IDE project.
</rant>

The dcurses library on www.dsource.org wouldn't compile with a-a-p so I gave up
on it.  But that's probably do to the fact that it's in the pre-alpha stage, so
I might be being too harsh.

Apologies for the rant in reply to your message ;).  Consider it in no way
linked to your post.

Anyways, Jaap, if you are working in D and you have a nice curses implementation
for it, then yes I would like to see it.

In article <cmvj83$2deu$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Jaap Geurts says...

Hi James,

I made a setup for a curses window-ing library. It's functional, some of the
structure is there. It's somehow insprired by the Java Swing library..
If you are interested to take a look at, please let me know. I'm willing to
make it GPL.

Jaap


Regards,
James Dunne
Nov 11 2004
next sibling parent reply Jaap Geurts <Jaap_member pathlink.com> writes:
Hi James,


Well, that all depends on what language you have it implemented for and how far
you've gone with it.  Do you have mouse support?  Do you have keypad support?
I've never used Java let alone its Swing Library, but I have heard of it and
have a general idea of what it is.


I have implemented it in D. It doesn't have mouse support, but the keyboard
works correctly. It can even handle Vietnamese (UTF-8) and Vietnamese input.
(Provided that the virtual linux console is on the framebuffer with 512char set
support).


I'd be mostly interested in developing with C, since I find that D doesn't have
much of an automatic build processing tool, and I absolutely hate C++.  I've
tried dmake and found it only works sometimes under Linux.  I've tried a-a-p in
Linux and got confused, plus I don't want to be lugging around a huge Python
install just to build a freakin project.  Any suggestions here?


That's right. And I completely agree with your /rant/ hihi. The automake tools
maybe powerfull, but it is nowhere near productive when writing medium sized
applications. I have never gotten it to work. I hate the "huge python is
compulsary requirement", and all those other big pieces of libraries that eat up
space and speed... And beware if you don't have the very/very latest version.
But I guess that is just life of a developer on Linux. One has to be bleeding
edge, because most libraries are not 100% complete.
For my project I do have subdirectories, and I wrote my own makefile for it. It
only depends on ncurses ;-) Take a look at it.


The dcurses library on www.dsource.org wouldn't compile with a-a-p so I gave up
on it.  But that's probably do to the fact that it's in the pre-alpha stage, so
I might be being too harsh.


I can't find the dcurses on dsource.org, but I made my own translation. Altough
not complete it has enough functions available to do the drawing and keyboard
input.


Apologies for the rant in reply to your message ;).  Consider it in no way
linked to your post.


I know you are frustrated, and so am I. This is the very reason why switching to
windows is so pleasurable. If open source developers don't get their act
together then only a small portion of people(hardcore developers) will develop
for linux. It doesn't make much sense if you look at productivity versus
administration ratio's.


Anyways, Jaap, if you are working in D and you have a nice curses implementation
for it, then yes I would like to see it.


Can you give me your private email. Because I like to give you a demo
application with it so you can see how it works and decide, but I don't want to
share that with the world.

Jaap


In article <cmvj83$2deu$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Jaap Geurts says...

Hi James,

I made a setup for a curses window-ing library. It's functional, some of the
structure is there. It's somehow insprired by the Java Swing library..
If you are interested to take a look at, please let me know. I'm willing to
make it GPL.

Jaap


Regards,
James Dunne
Nov 11 2004
parent Lars Ivar Igesund <larsivar igesund.net> writes:
Jaap Geurts wrote:

 
 That's right. And I completely agree with your /rant/ hihi. The automake tools
 maybe powerfull, but it is nowhere near productive when writing medium sized
 applications. I have never gotten it to work. I hate the "huge python is
 compulsary requirement", and all those other big pieces of libraries that eat
up
 space and speed... 


I agree that the Python environment is a somewhat huge requirement for 
A-A-P, but then it adds a very high degree of flexibility and ease for 
the makefile developer. The size of Python and the fact that it is 
interpreted gives enourmous expressive power.

Lars Ivar Igesund
Nov 12 2004
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Jaap Geurts <jaapsen hotmail.com> writes:
Hi


Well, that all depends on what language you have it implemented for and how far
you've gone with it.  Do you have mouse support?  Do you have keypad support?
I've never used Java let alone its Swing Library, but I have heard of it and
have a general idea of what it is.


I've implemented it all in D. It has no mouse support but it does do most of the
keyboard, including the most important keypad functions:
HOME,END,LEFT,RIGHT,UP,DOWN etc.


I'd be mostly interested in developing with C, since I find that D doesn't have
much of an automatic build processing tool, and I absolutely hate C++.  I've
tried dmake and found it only works sometimes under Linux.  I've tried a-a-p in
Linux and got confused, plus I don't want to be lugging around a huge Python
install just to build a freakin project.  Any suggestions here?


I hate that too. Just having to install python or any other library just to get
a project compiles. And the automake tools may be powerful, but are not very
productive. The productivity -administration ratios just make switching to
windows worthwile for small to medium scale projects. I agree with your rant.
;-)

My library tree is in subdirectories and I've written my own makefile and it
compiles just fine. (Didn't check with the latest dmd though). It's only
dependency is the standard GNU gmake and the ncurses library.


The dcurses library on www.dsource.org wouldn't compile with a-a-p so I gave up
on it.  But that's probably do to the fact that it's in the pre-alpha stage, so
I might be being too harsh.


I've converted the ncurses header file myself and it works perfectly. I've even
implemented a DeviceContext in the library and I was able to compile and run my
project on the Win32 console once. (Not sure if that still works though)


Anyways, Jaap, if you are working in D and you have a nice curses implementation
for it, then yes I would like to see it.


Can you give me your private email, because I want to give you my whole project
tree so that you can see a demo application with it. However I don't want to
give that application to the world..
If you want to run the application you need to install MySQL.

Let me know :) 


Jaap


In article <cmvj83$2deu$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Jaap Geurts says...

Hi James,

I made a setup for a curses window-ing library. It's functional, some of the
structure is there. It's somehow insprired by the Java Swing library..
If you are interested to take a look at, please let me know. I'm willing to
make it GPL.

Jaap


Regards,
James Dunne
Nov 11 2004
parent James Dunne <jdunne4 bradley.edu> writes:
Jaap,

Thanks for all your willingness to help, and I only say that since I haven't
received any *tangible* help yet ;).  Anyways, I just sent you an e-mail to the
address you provide on the forum.  A MySQL install should be no problem to get
your app working; I've got DEBIAN!!! *bwahahahahaha* .. *ahem*

BTW, did you say you've got widget support in curses?  Like a dialog, button,
textbox, etc. or did you just convert over the curses header file?  I only ask
since you mentioned "inspired by the Java Swing Library."

I think I'll be switching now to D if this all works out, which is much better.
I can then work modularly and object-orientedly (is that a word?) with much less
hassle and confusion and OVERHEAD than C++ or C.  Also, D nearly triples my
productively with compile times and dev times!  :)


In article <cn1c8p$1ubm$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Jaap Geurts says...

Hi


Well, that all depends on what language you have it implemented for and how far
you've gone with it.  Do you have mouse support?  Do you have keypad support?
I've never used Java let alone its Swing Library, but I have heard of it and
have a general idea of what it is.


I've implemented it all in D. It has no mouse support but it does do most of the
keyboard, including the most important keypad functions:
HOME,END,LEFT,RIGHT,UP,DOWN etc.


I'd be mostly interested in developing with C, since I find that D doesn't have
much of an automatic build processing tool, and I absolutely hate C++.  I've
tried dmake and found it only works sometimes under Linux.  I've tried a-a-p in
Linux and got confused, plus I don't want to be lugging around a huge Python
install just to build a freakin project.  Any suggestions here?


I hate that too. Just having to install python or any other library just to get
a project compiles. And the automake tools may be powerful, but are not very
productive. The productivity -administration ratios just make switching to
windows worthwile for small to medium scale projects. I agree with your rant.
;-)

My library tree is in subdirectories and I've written my own makefile and it
compiles just fine. (Didn't check with the latest dmd though). It's only
dependency is the standard GNU gmake and the ncurses library.


The dcurses library on www.dsource.org wouldn't compile with a-a-p so I gave up
on it.  But that's probably do to the fact that it's in the pre-alpha stage, so
I might be being too harsh.


I've converted the ncurses header file myself and it works perfectly. I've even
implemented a DeviceContext in the library and I was able to compile and run my
project on the Win32 console once. (Not sure if that still works though)


Anyways, Jaap, if you are working in D and you have a nice curses implementation
for it, then yes I would like to see it.


Can you give me your private email, because I want to give you my whole project
tree so that you can see a demo application with it. However I don't want to
give that application to the world..
If you want to run the application you need to install MySQL.

Let me know :) 


Jaap


In article <cmvj83$2deu$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Jaap Geurts says...

Hi James,

I made a setup for a curses window-ing library. It's functional, some of the
structure is there. It's somehow insprired by the Java Swing library..
If you are interested to take a look at, please let me know. I'm willing to
make it GPL.

Jaap


Regards,
James Dunne




Regards,
James Dunne
Nov 12 2004
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Ilya Minkov <minkov cs.tum.edu> writes:
James Dunne schrieb:

 I'd be mostly interested in developing with C, since I find that D doesn't have
 much of an automatic build processing tool, and I absolutely hate C++.


DMD compiler is so fast in non-release, non-optimized mode, that you 
probably just want to make a very small, simple shell script which 
compiles all the reqiered files with one command to DMD. It only takes a 
couple of seconds on a semi-modern machine with an order of magnitude of 
100kLoc project. So don't let the lack of a build system turn you off 
from D. Finally, if you are writing developer tools anyway, you could 
write/improve a build tool yourself, couldn't you? :)

I wonder how C++ provokes that much hate in you, as opposed to C? I 
happen to dislike C a lot, but C++ adds so much more (possible) safety 
and flexibility that C++ is in fact quite usable. Besides - C++ is a 
superset of C minus a few things one wouldn't like to do anyway, so what 
keeps you from limiting yourself to a subset of C++ and using it, like 
everyone is doing anyway? I am just curious to know what you dislike 
about C++.

-eye
Nov 12 2004
parent James Dunne <jdunne4 bradley.edu> writes:
My hatred for C++ is mostly syntactically based, I guess.  Just looking at the
code makes me twinge.  Also the hack on top of hack on top of hack that the
design is just sickens me.  Who'd have thought that (ClassName::*) would be a
delegate function?  And what is with the virtual myfunc(int somearg) = 0; that
denotes a pure-virtual function which renders a class abstract?  Just all the
caveats and rules to remember leaves me running back to my C++ spec books and
class notes just to remember how to code right.

Also, C++ bothers me since it looks like a big hack with C code and C tricks
buried in it.  It also has performance issues due to the fact that it has to
support features that only 1% of the code will actually utilize (multiple
inheritance, polymorphism, etc).


keywords.  D seems to follow this approach, and I enjoy it.  I don't like to use

since I don't like the idea of interpreted bytecode.  When I code, I want to
know I have at least nearly the full power of the machine at my fingertips.  The
argument of "processors are getting faster, so we can be lazier" does NOT fly
with me, obviously.

OTOH, I enjoy C very much because it does what it says it does, and nothing
more.  I like that I have full control over what I want to do and the details of
implementation aren't hidden from me.  I also like that it is simple enough to
use and everything is well-defined and standardized.  How many C++ compilers
actually implement all the standard features correctly?

Anyways, I'll be developing with D to make this IDE now, contrary to my previous
post.  This way the code will LOOK nice, and will perform much better.

In article <cn2ehf$bv0$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Ilya Minkov says...

James Dunne schrieb:

 I'd be mostly interested in developing with C, since I find that D doesn't have
 much of an automatic build processing tool, and I absolutely hate C++.


DMD compiler is so fast in non-release, non-optimized mode, that you 
probably just want to make a very small, simple shell script which 
compiles all the reqiered files with one command to DMD. It only takes a 
couple of seconds on a semi-modern machine with an order of magnitude of 
100kLoc project. So don't let the lack of a build system turn you off 
from D. Finally, if you are writing developer tools anyway, you could 
write/improve a build tool yourself, couldn't you? :)

I wonder how C++ provokes that much hate in you, as opposed to C? I 
happen to dislike C a lot, but C++ adds so much more (possible) safety 
and flexibility that C++ is in fact quite usable. Besides - C++ is a 
superset of C minus a few things one wouldn't like to do anyway, so what 
keeps you from limiting yourself to a subset of C++ and using it, like 
everyone is doing anyway? I am just curious to know what you dislike 
about C++.

-eye


Regards,
James Dunne
Nov 14 2004
prev sibling parent Lars Ivar Igesund <larsivar igesund.net> writes:
James Dunne wrote:


 The dcurses library on www.dsource.org wouldn't compile with a-a-p so I gave up
 on it.  But that's probably do to the fact that it's in the pre-alpha stage, so
 I might be being too harsh.


That IS very harsh :) I think it compiles for me, but then I wasn't 
aware that anyone else had tested it. Even if you get it to compile, it 
isn't really functional due to character messups. I also gathered that a 
  direct port just was to limiting. I've therefore started a total 
rewrite of the whole library. It will end up in something a lot more OO 
when it eventually finishes. I'll make a note over at the dsource forums 
about this... Oh, and it's currently Win32 only.

On A-A-P: I'm the one behind the D support and AFAIK, noone really 
tested it besides me. I've never tried it on Linux myself. It would be 
nice with some feed back...

Lars Ivar Igesund
Nov 12 2004
prev sibling next sibling parent J C Calvarese <jcc7 cox.net> writes:
James Dunne wrote:

 I'd like some SVN space to work with, perhaps the guys at www.dsource.org would
 be kind enough to host!  Although for now I can dev on my own box.
 
 Regards,
 James Dunne


It shouldn't be a problem to get a project set up at dsource. Just 
create a profile at the dsource forum for yourself (if you haven't 
already). Then send a Private Message to Brad or post a request in 
"Potential Projects" (http://www.dsource.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=13).

-- 
Justin (a/k/a jcc7)
http://jcc_7.tripod.com/d/
Nov 11 2004
prev sibling next sibling parent reply "Lionello Lunesu" <lionello.lunesu crystalinter.remove.com> writes:
What would be the difference between an IDE for D and an IDE for any 
programming language? Isn't it a matter of changing what compiler/linker 
gets invoked when you press "run"?

(This is a serious question. I don't mean to sound negative)

Greets,

Lionello.
Nov 11 2004
parent reply James Dunne <jdunne4 bradley.edu> writes:
It's also a matter of language-parsing to get intellisense data, and deciding on
a decent build system to use for D programs, for which I think GNU Make will
suffice.  The build system is subject to change, however, once I discover a
decent alternative.

In article <cn1o1b$2dd8$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Lionello Lunesu says...

What would be the difference between an IDE for D and an IDE for any 
programming language? Isn't it a matter of changing what compiler/linker 
gets invoked when you press "run"?

(This is a serious question. I don't mean to sound negative)

Greets,

Lionello. 


Regards,
James Dunne
Nov 12 2004
parent reply Joey Peters <Joey_member pathlink.com> writes:
In article <cn1ui6$2npq$1 digitaldaemon.com>, James Dunne says... 

It's also a


matter of language-parsing to get intellisense data, and deciding 
on 

a decent


build system to use for D programs, for which I think GNU Make will 

suffice.


The build system is subject to change, however, once I discover a 

decent


alternative. 
 
In case you need a parser, andy wrote a grammer file for D in
ANTLR (generates 

but I can ask him 
if you need it. 
 
Intellisense, that would be somewhat weird
with the templates and mixins, but I 
guess that makes up for the simplicity of
a d parser (versus c++). It would be 
rock if it looked like those old PASCAL
ides but then with intellisense, hah. 
Man, still remember them from school.
Nov 12 2004
next sibling parent J C Calvarese <jcc7 cox.net> writes:
In article <cn2nnd$p46$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Joey Peters says...

In article <cn1ui6$2npq$1 digitaldaemon.com>, James Dunne says... 

It's also a


matter of language-parsing to get intellisense data, and deciding 
on 

a decent


build system to use for D programs, for which I think GNU Make will 

suffice.


The build system is subject to change, however, once I discover a 

decent


alternative. 
 
In case you need a parser, andy wrote a grammer file for D in
ANTLR (generates 

but I can ask him 
if you need it. 


According to http://www.prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?DGrammar, it's at
http://andy.tadan.us/d/d.g

You also might want to check out http://www.atari-soldiers.com/dsource_antlr.zip

jcc7
Nov 12 2004
prev sibling parent James Dunne <jdunne4 bradley.edu> writes:
Oh yes, old skool IDEs from Borland in DOS?  Ahh those were the days.  I think
it was called TurboVision.  Jaap's curses library should help very much with
implementing something like it, but not exactly of course.  Yes, intellisense
will be provided by a drop-down listbox below your current code line.  I've
thought about it, and that could be too intrusive and annoying at times, so
possibly also a side-bar list.  Or even a tab-completion type implementation.
So many possibilities there in a CUI!

In article <cn2nnd$p46$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Joey Peters says...

In article <cn1ui6$2npq$1 digitaldaemon.com>, James Dunne says... 

It's also a


matter of language-parsing to get intellisense data, and deciding 
on 

a decent


build system to use for D programs, for which I think GNU Make will 

suffice.


The build system is subject to change, however, once I discover a 

decent


alternative. 
 
In case you need a parser, andy wrote a grammer file for D in
ANTLR (generates 

but I can ask him 
if you need it. 
 
Intellisense, that would be somewhat weird
with the templates and mixins, but I 
guess that makes up for the simplicity of
a d parser (versus c++). It would be 
rock if it looked like those old PASCAL
ides but then with intellisense, hah. 
Man, still remember them from school. 


Regards,
James Dunne
Nov 14 2004
prev sibling parent reply "Glen Perkins" <please.dont email.com> writes:
"James Dunne" <jdunne4 bradley.edu> wrote in message 
news:cmsme7$1813$1 digitaldaemon.com...

 That does it.

 I'm making an IDE for D.

 [...]
 Please attach your feature requests below.


Please include drag and drop code editing such as that in MS Visual 
Studio. You select a chunk of code, place your mouse pointer anywhere 
on the selection, and start dragging. An insertion point follows the 
mouse pointer as you drag, and when you release the mouse button, the 
selected text is moved, meaning inserted at that point and deleted 
from its original location.

It's also smart enough to avoid concatenating two separate lines of 
code or breaking one into two as you move code around, so a couple of 
quick hand motions is usually all you need to move code around. There 
is rarely any need to slow down and make sure you select just the 
right parts, re-separate lines after inserting, etc. Quick, easy, and 
accurate without distracting you from thinking about the logic of the 
code itself.

I used to have the common programmer's aversion to mouse techniques 
when text editing because having to unseat my hand from its home 
position to fish around for a mouse, then reseat my hand, often going 
back and forth, is such a nuisance.

Then I had to borrow an IBM laptop for a while and was forced to use 
the little TrackPoint eraserhead pointing device in the middle of the 
keyboard. For a few days it was much more awkward than a regular 
mouse, but after I got good at it I noticed that using the mouse had 
turned into keyboarding. I was essentially typing and mousing 
simultaneously. Now this is available from many different hardware 
makers.

Then, with the drag and drop editing ability of Visual Studio's 
editor, I was able to type and push chunks of code around faster than 
I ever did with either vim or emacs keyboard commands (in most cases), 
but without any (apparent) need to remember anything. One general 
technique (drag to select, then drag and drop the selection) replaces 
the dozen or two dozen special-case techniques, each with its own key 
sequence (vim) or key chord (emacs), and each with its own rules.

This is made even easier by a feature that lets you select a whole 
line by clicking the margin to the left of the line. Since most code 
moving is done in whole lines, this left margin selection feature lets 
you just drag your mouse down the left side of the code you want, then 
drag and drop those lines of code. Please include this left-margin 
selection feature, too, if you can.

But then, of course, I missed some keyboard things such as quick 
searching (think vi's / followed by n-n-n-n...), and most people still 
think mousing requires taking your hands off the keyboard, so having 
both keyboard and mouse techniques seems best.
Nov 14 2004
parent James Dunne <jdunne4 bradley.edu> writes:
Thanks for your input, and yes I agree 100% with you on the validity and
usefulness of your suggestion.  What good is an IDE if it doesn't improve
productivity?  The left-margin feature is one I love as well, but often forget
it exists since I use it so commonly (just subconcsiously now I guess, lol).
Yes, I can do this and design for it early on once I get the D boilerplate
editor code done.

In article <cn8pea$3k7$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Glen Perkins says...

"James Dunne" <jdunne4 bradley.edu> wrote in message 
news:cmsme7$1813$1 digitaldaemon.com...

 That does it.

 I'm making an IDE for D.

 [...]
 Please attach your feature requests below.


Please include drag and drop code editing such as that in MS Visual 
Studio. You select a chunk of code, place your mouse pointer anywhere 
on the selection, and start dragging. An insertion point follows the 
mouse pointer as you drag, and when you release the mouse button, the 
selected text is moved, meaning inserted at that point and deleted 
from its original location.

It's also smart enough to avoid concatenating two separate lines of 
code or breaking one into two as you move code around, so a couple of 
quick hand motions is usually all you need to move code around. There 
is rarely any need to slow down and make sure you select just the 
right parts, re-separate lines after inserting, etc. Quick, easy, and 
accurate without distracting you from thinking about the logic of the 
code itself.

I used to have the common programmer's aversion to mouse techniques 
when text editing because having to unseat my hand from its home 
position to fish around for a mouse, then reseat my hand, often going 
back and forth, is such a nuisance.

Then I had to borrow an IBM laptop for a while and was forced to use 
the little TrackPoint eraserhead pointing device in the middle of the 
keyboard. For a few days it was much more awkward than a regular 
mouse, but after I got good at it I noticed that using the mouse had 
turned into keyboarding. I was essentially typing and mousing 
simultaneously. Now this is available from many different hardware 
makers.

Then, with the drag and drop editing ability of Visual Studio's 
editor, I was able to type and push chunks of code around faster than 
I ever did with either vim or emacs keyboard commands (in most cases), 
but without any (apparent) need to remember anything. One general 
technique (drag to select, then drag and drop the selection) replaces 
the dozen or two dozen special-case techniques, each with its own key 
sequence (vim) or key chord (emacs), and each with its own rules.

This is made even easier by a feature that lets you select a whole 
line by clicking the margin to the left of the line. Since most code 
moving is done in whole lines, this left margin selection feature lets 
you just drag your mouse down the left side of the code you want, then 
drag and drop those lines of code. Please include this left-margin 
selection feature, too, if you can.

But then, of course, I missed some keyboard things such as quick 
searching (think vi's / followed by n-n-n-n...), and most people still 
think mousing requires taking your hands off the keyboard, so having 
both keyboard and mouse techniques seems best.


Regards,
James Dunne
Nov 14 2004