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D - Example code

reply Anon. <Anon._member pathlink.com> writes:
Is there a read source of example code in D? Something a little more extensive
that those that come with the compiler without being horribly complex. Just some
worked examples of using the various new (relative to C) language features. 

My current block is with hashes (associative arrays). 

I see from the wc sample that you can iterate a hash by

1) retrieving an array of all the keys in the hash
2) iterating that array using a numeric index
3) using the result (key) from that to index into the hash and retrieve the
corresponding value.

That works fine, but it requires the duplication of the storage required for the
keys, which is expensive for large hashes. 

I was looking for an iterator something like perl5's "each" keyword? I such a
thing possible, planned, hiding or just out of the question?



Regards, anon.
Mar 03 2004
next sibling parent reply =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Julio_Jim=E9nez?= <jujibo inicia.es> writes:
Anon. wrote:

 Is there a read source of example code in D? Something a little more extensive
 that those that come with the compiler without being horribly complex. Just
some
 worked examples of using the various new (relative to C) language features. 
 
 My current block is with hashes (associative arrays). 
 
 I see from the wc sample that you can iterate a hash by
 
 1) retrieving an array of all the keys in the hash
 2) iterating that array using a numeric index
 3) using the result (key) from that to index into the hash and retrieve the
 corresponding value.
 
 That works fine, but it requires the duplication of the storage required for
the
 keys, which is expensive for large hashes. 
 
 I was looking for an iterator something like perl5's "each" keyword? I such a
 thing possible, planned, hiding or just out of the question?
 
 
 
 Regards, anon.


Please... pick at  http://www.digitalmars.com/d/arrays.html
and learn about Associative Arrays. (not require duplication)... read de 
wc2.d example :-)

About D examples code, if you know about C, only read the language 
specifications there are a lot of examples (not full programs) but it's 
very easy to write your owns.

More: pick at D links there are many sites with examples and tutorials


regards

Julio Jiménez
Mar 03 2004
next sibling parent reply Ant <Ant_member pathlink.com> writes:
In article <c258cm$1qu7$1 digitaldaemon.com>, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Julio_Jim=E9nez?=
says...

Anon. wrote:

 
 I see from the wc sample that you can iterate a hash by
 
 1) retrieving an array of all the keys in the hash
 2) iterating that array using a numeric index
 3) using the result (key) from that to index into the hash and retrieve the
 corresponding value.




that's old.

(from memory)
char[][char[]] hash;
foreach ( char[] value ; hash.values )
{
   printf("value is %.*s\n", value);
}

check http://www.digitalmars.com/d/statement.html#foreach

it's a pity associative arrays are not supported with the other
foreach version: foreach ( int|uint, type ; array )
it could be:
foreach ( char[] key, char[] value ; hash ) // not valid

Ant
Mar 03 2004
parent reply Vathix <vathix dprogramming.com> writes:
Ant wrote:

 In article <c258cm$1qu7$1 digitaldaemon.com>, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Julio_Jim=E9nez?=
 says...
 

Anon. wrote:


I see from the wc sample that you can iterate a hash by

1) retrieving an array of all the keys in the hash
2) iterating that array using a numeric index
3) using the result (key) from that to index into the hash and retrieve the
corresponding value.




 
 
 that's old.
 
 (from memory)
 char[][char[]] hash;
 foreach ( char[] value ; hash.values )
 {
    printf("value is %.*s\n", value);
 }
 
 check http://www.digitalmars.com/d/statement.html#foreach
 
 it's a pity associative arrays are not supported with the other
 foreach version: foreach ( int|uint, type ; array )
 it could be:
 foreach ( char[] key, char[] value ; hash ) // not valid
 
 Ant
 


I foreach over associative arrays all the time. There's even an example 
   http://www.digitalmars.com/d/statement.html#foreach :

    double[char[]] a; // index type is char[], value type is double
    ...
    foreach (char[] s, double d; a)
    {
       printf("a['%.*s'] = %g\n", s, d);
    }


-- 
Christopher E. Miller
Mar 03 2004
next sibling parent Ant <Ant_member pathlink.com> writes:
In article <c25b2g$1vu0$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Vathix says...

I foreach over associative arrays all the time. There's even an example 
   http://www.digitalmars.com/d/statement.html#foreach :

    double[char[]] a; // index type is char[], value type is double
    ...
    foreach (char[] s, double d; a)
    {
       printf("a['%.*s'] = %g\n", s, d);
    }


It is on the manuals!
I just check the manuals before posting... :(
need to check my eyes

thanks.

Ant
Mar 03 2004
prev sibling parent Anon <Anon_member pathlink.com> writes:
In article <c25b2g$1vu0$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Vathix says...

Ant wrote:

 In article <c258cm$1qu7$1 digitaldaemon.com>, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Julio_Jim=E9nez?=
 says...
 

Anon. wrote:


I see from the wc sample that you can iterate a hash by

1) retrieving an array of all the keys in the hash
2) iterating that array using a numeric index
3) using the result (key) from that to index into the hash and retrieve the
corresponding value.




 
 
 that's old.
 
 (from memory)
 char[][char[]] hash;
 foreach ( char[] value ; hash.values )
 {
    printf("value is %.*s\n", value);
 }
 
 check http://www.digitalmars.com/d/statement.html#foreach
 
 it's a pity associative arrays are not supported with the other
 foreach version: foreach ( int|uint, type ; array )
 it could be:
 foreach ( char[] key, char[] value ; hash ) // not valid
 
 Ant
 


I foreach over associative arrays all the time. There's even an example 
   http://www.digitalmars.com/d/statement.html#foreach :

    double[char[]] a; // index type is char[], value type is double
    ...
    foreach (char[] s, double d; a)
    {
       printf("a['%.*s'] = %g\n", s, d);
    }


Great! It seemed strange that a language that is so well thought through in
almost every respect should require the contortions shown in the word count
example at the end of the Arrays section of the manual.

char[][] keys = dictionary.keys;// find all words in dictionary[]
for (int i = 0; i < keys.length; i++)
{   char[] word;

word = keys[i];
printf("%3d %.*s\n", dictionary[word], word);
}

I (now) see that the wc2.d in the samples/d directory uses foreach. Maybe this
will act as a reminder for someone to update that page of the manual.

FWIW. I still that that an iterator would make sense. 
Sometimes its isn't convenient to process all the keys of a hash in one loop. 
A pair of methods:

aarray.first
aarray.next

maybe?

Thanks all. 

Anon.




-- 
Christopher E. Miller
Mar 03 2004
prev sibling next sibling parent =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Julio_Jim=E9nez?= <jujibo inicia.es> writes:
The wc2.d code: (from dmd examples)


import std.c.stdio;
import std.file;

int main (char[][] args)
{
     int w_total;
     int l_total;
     int c_total;
     int[char[]] dictionary;

     printf("   lines   words   bytes file\n");
     foreach (char[] arg; args[1 .. args.length])
     {
	char[] input;
	int w_cnt, l_cnt, c_cnt;
	int inword;
	int wstart;

	input = cast(char[])std.file.read(arg);

	for (int j = 0; j < input.length; j++)
	{   char c;

	    c = input[j];
	    if (c == '\n')
		++l_cnt;
	    if (c >= '0' && c <= '9')
	    {
	    }
	    else if (c >= 'a' && c <= 'z' ||
		c >= 'A' && c <= 'Z')
	    {
		if (!inword)
		{
		    wstart = j;
		    inword = 1;
		    ++w_cnt;
		}
	    }
	    else if (inword)
	    {	char[] word = input[wstart .. j];

		dictionary[word]++;
		inword = 0;
	    }
	    ++c_cnt;
	}
	if (inword)
	{   char[] w = input[wstart .. input.length];
	    dictionary[w]++;
	}
	printf("%8lu%8lu%8lu %.*s\n", l_cnt, w_cnt, c_cnt, arg);
	l_total += l_cnt;
	w_total += w_cnt;
	c_total += c_cnt;
     }

     if (args.length > 2)
     {
	printf("--------------------------------------\n%8lu%8lu%8lu total",
	    l_total, w_total, c_total);
     }

     printf("--------------------------------------\n");

     foreach (char[] word1; dictionary.keys.sort)
     {
	printf("%3d %.*s\n", dictionary[word1], word1);
     }
     return 0;
}
Mar 03 2004
prev sibling parent reply Anon. <Anon._member pathlink.com> writes:
In article <c258cm$1qu7$1 digitaldaemon.com>, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Julio_Jim=E9nez?=
says...

Anon. wrote:

 Is there a read source of example code in D? Something a little more extensive
 that those that come with the compiler without being horribly complex. Just
some
 worked examples of using the various new (relative to C) language features. 
 
 My current block is with hashes (associative arrays). 
 
 I see from the wc sample that you can iterate a hash by
 
 1) retrieving an array of all the keys in the hash
 2) iterating that array using a numeric index
 3) using the result (key) from that to index into the hash and retrieve the
 corresponding value.
 
 That works fine, but it requires the duplication of the storage required for
the
 keys, which is expensive for large hashes. 
 
 I was looking for an iterator something like perl5's "each" keyword? I such a
 thing possible, planned, hiding or just out of the question?
 
 
 
 Regards, anon.


Please... pick at  http://www.digitalmars.com/d/arrays.html


It was "Associative Array Example: word count" at the end of that very page that
gave me my mistaken impression :)


and learn about Associative Arrays. (not require duplication)... read de 
wc2.d example :-)

About D examples code, if you know about C, only read the language 
specifications there are a lot of examples (not full programs) but it's 
very easy to write your owns.


I've always found it quicker to learn a language by reading through code written
by other people with a reasonable amount of expertise than to learn it by
piecing together my own code by leaping all over the manula to pick up he
pieces. The latter technique tends to lead to mistaken impressions and bad
habits.


More: pick at D links there are many sites with examples and tutorials


If you could point me at a few of tehse many sites, that would be really useful.


regards

Julio Jiménez


regards, Anion
Mar 03 2004
parent =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Julio_Jim=E9nez?= <jujibo inicia.es> writes:
Anon. wrote:
...


 
 
 If you could point me at a few of tehse many sites, that would be really
useful.
 
 

regards

Julio Jiménez


 
 
 regards, Anion
 
 


http://dui.sourceforge.net/
you can learn about classes and interfacing to C libraries

http://int19h.tamb.ru/
some projects and examples

http://jcc_7.tripod.com/d/tutor/
Simple D tutorial

http://www.dprogramming.com/
Little tutorial and some projects

http://www.codemoon.com/cm/dpage.php
Programs in D


About the wc.d example, remember it's only an example; not the better 
way to do that.... wc2.d is a little better, but an example too.

D give you the freedom to do what you need in your own way.
Look at dmd/src/phobos/internal/aaA.d (Implementation of associative array)
you can study it and implement the functions you need ;-)
No need to wait another one write it for you!



Regards, Julio
Mar 04 2004
prev sibling parent reply Mike Jolley <Mike_member pathlink.com> writes:
In article <c246jl$301q$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Anon. says...

Is there a read source of example code in D? Something a little more extensive
that those that come with the compiler without being horribly complex. Just some
worked examples of using the various new (relative to C) language features. 


I would like to see a horribly complex problem solved with the full treatment in
C++ and D side by side.  When I say nontrivial, I mean, I've seen the
text-processing stuff and it's some nice syntax, but I could use perl for that.

I need to see something big that would require design patterns in C++.  D seems
to automatically solve some major problems, like header dependencies that would
require specific techniques to handle when writing C++.  Good job.  but there
are a lot of unexpected interactions among language features that have been
found and the C++ standard has at least tried to address. I'm not giving up on
C++ yet.  If D can do better than the examples given in "Modern C++ Design", I'm
listening.
Jun 10 2004
parent reply "Matthew" <admin stlsoft.dot.dot.dot.dot.org> writes:
Practically: check out the implementations of std.windows.registry.d, and the
WinSTL reg_key_sequence<> and reg_value_sequence<> classes
(ftp://ftp.digitalmars.com/stlsoft-1.7.1.zip). They had the same author - me -
and give a pretty good illustration of the respective powers of the two
languages, and a fair and unbiased comparison of the effort and results of the
implementation a non-trivial problem.

Philosophically: I'm not giving up on C++ yet and, while I am *very*
enthusiastic
about D, I do not seeing it ever replace C++. I wouldn't worry about your having
those hard-won skills become redundant. C++ has a long life ahead of it,
probably
about as long as D's. Where D does have the advantage, however, is that it's
easier to learn and teach, and has almost as much power as C++.

Finally, you're posting on the wrong NG. This one's obsolete. Try
news://news.digitalmars.com/digitalmars.D


-- 
Matthew Wilson

Author: "Imperfect C++", Addison-Wesley, 2004
    (http://www.imperfectcplusplus.com)
Contributing editor, C/C++ Users Journal
    (http://www.synesis.com.au/articles.html#columns)
Director, Synesis Software
    (www.synesis.com.au)
STLSoft moderator
    (http://www.stlsoft.org)

-----------------------------------------------------



"Mike Jolley" <Mike_member pathlink.com> wrote in message
news:cabkok$c63$1 digitaldaemon.com...

 In article <c246jl$301q$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Anon. says...

Is there a read source of example code in D? Something a little more extensive
that those that come with the compiler without being horribly complex. Just




some

worked examples of using the various new (relative to C) language features.


 I would like to see a horribly complex problem solved with the full treatment


in

 C++ and D side by side.  When I say nontrivial, I mean, I've seen the
 text-processing stuff and it's some nice syntax, but I could use perl for that.

 I need to see something big that would require design patterns in C++.  D seems
 to automatically solve some major problems, like header dependencies that would
 require specific techniques to handle when writing C++.  Good job.  but there
 are a lot of unexpected interactions among language features that have been
 found and the C++ standard has at least tried to address. I'm not giving up on
 C++ yet.  If D can do better than the examples given in "Modern C++ Design",


I'm

 listening.
Jun 22 2004
parent reply "Walter" <newshound digitalmars.com> writes:
"Matthew" <admin stlsoft.dot.dot.dot.dot.org> wrote in message
news:cb99je$1ugm$1 digitaldaemon.com...

 Philosophically: I'm not giving up on C++ yet and, while I am *very*


enthusiastic

 about D, I do not seeing it ever replace C++. I wouldn't worry about your


having

 those hard-won skills become redundant. C++ has a long life ahead of it,


probably

 about as long as D's. Where D does have the advantage, however, is that


it's

 easier to learn and teach, and has almost as much power as C++.


D has a lot of powerful capabilities that are absent from C++. Why is C++
more powerful? I don't believe it is. For example, you can't do DbC, mixins,
nested functions, delegates, etc., in C++. C++'s support for unicode is
mostly a disaster. Using gc in C++ is only for experts.
Jun 22 2004
next sibling parent reply Sean Kelly <sean f4.ca> writes:
In article <cbag08$sai$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Walter says...

D has a lot of powerful capabilities that are absent from C++. Why is C++
more powerful? I don't believe it is. For example, you can't do DbC, mixins,
nested functions, delegates, etc., in C++. C++'s support for unicode is
mostly a disaster. Using gc in C++ is only for experts.


I'm not sure that C++ *is* more powerful.  But discovering the techniques that
really demonstrate this can take quite a while--it wasn't until maybe 1997 that
people really started to explore the full potential of templates.  I'm still new
enough with D that I find myself frustrated trying to do some things I take for
granted in C++, but I think much of that will go away as I learn new techniques.
Overall I think D has the potential to be more powerful than C++.

Sean
Jun 22 2004
parent "Walter" <newshound digitalmars.com> writes:
"Sean Kelly" <sean f4.ca> wrote in message
news:cbagp2$tg3$1 digitaldaemon.com...

 In article <cbag08$sai$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Walter says...

D has a lot of powerful capabilities that are absent from C++. Why is C++
more powerful? I don't believe it is. For example, you can't do DbC,




mixins,

nested functions, delegates, etc., in C++. C++'s support for unicode is
mostly a disaster. Using gc in C++ is only for experts.


 I'm not sure that C++ *is* more powerful.  But discovering the techniques


that

 really demonstrate this can take quite a while--it wasn't until maybe 1997


that

 people really started to explore the full potential of templates.  I'm


still new

 enough with D that I find myself frustrated trying to do some things I


take for

 granted in C++, but I think much of that will go away as I learn new


techniques.

 Overall I think D has the potential to be more powerful than C++.


I think you make a great point. Attempting to do a rote translation of C++
code into D is going to be frustrating; but once one gets used to thinking
in D, doing a rote translation of D to C++ is going to be impractical.
Jun 22 2004
prev sibling next sibling parent "Matthew" <admin stlsoft.dot.dot.dot.dot.org> writes:
"Walter" <newshound digitalmars.com> wrote in message
news:cbag08$sai$1 digitaldaemon.com...

 "Matthew" <admin stlsoft.dot.dot.dot.dot.org> wrote in message
 news:cb99je$1ugm$1 digitaldaemon.com...

 Philosophically: I'm not giving up on C++ yet and, while I am *very*


 enthusiastic

 about D, I do not seeing it ever replace C++. I wouldn't worry about your


 having

 those hard-won skills become redundant. C++ has a long life ahead of it,


 probably

 about as long as D's. Where D does have the advantage, however, is that


 it's

 easier to learn and teach, and has almost as much power as C++.


 D has a lot of powerful capabilities that are absent from C++. Why is C++
 more powerful? I don't believe it is. For example, you can't do DbC, mixins,
 nested functions, delegates, etc., in C++. C++'s support for unicode is
 mostly a disaster. Using gc in C++ is only for experts.


Haven't time to debate it at the mo; that'll have to wait until next month.

If you like, I can rephrase "has almost as much power as C++" to be "has
_nearly_
as many places in the programming world that you can poke it".
Jun 22 2004
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Charlie <Charlie_member pathlink.com> writes:
As soon as their is a D implementation that is bug free, and usable  ( a
complier must work 100% everytime), I will agree that D is more powerful than
C++.

I dont mean to be rude, and know that I love D and hope it will succeed, but I
think the window of oppurtunity for D is rapdily shutting.  Its been what over 3
years in development ?, and from my perspective its farther from 1.0 than it was
4 months ago.  Am I alone in thinking we need _one_ solid release, that won't be
antiquated 3 months later ?  We ( by we I mean Walter :P ) could probably
improve it , and add cool new features forever, and while I don't want to rush
it, I'm afraid the clock is ticking.

Charlie

In article <cbag08$sai$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Walter says...

"Matthew" <admin stlsoft.dot.dot.dot.dot.org> wrote in message
news:cb99je$1ugm$1 digitaldaemon.com...

 Philosophically: I'm not giving up on C++ yet and, while I am *very*


enthusiastic

 about D, I do not seeing it ever replace C++. I wouldn't worry about your


having

 those hard-won skills become redundant. C++ has a long life ahead of it,


probably

 about as long as D's. Where D does have the advantage, however, is that


it's

 easier to learn and teach, and has almost as much power as C++.


D has a lot of powerful capabilities that are absent from C++. Why is C++
more powerful? I don't believe it is. For example, you can't do DbC, mixins,
nested functions, delegates, etc., in C++. C++'s support for unicode is
mostly a disaster. Using gc in C++ is only for experts.
Jun 22 2004
next sibling parent reply "Walter" <newshound digitalmars.com> writes:
"Charlie" <Charlie_member pathlink.com> wrote in message
news:cbatrq$1fu2$1 digitaldaemon.com...

 As soon as their is a D implementation that is bug free, and usable  ( a
 complier must work 100% everytime), I will agree that D is more powerful


than

 C++.

 I dont mean to be rude, and know that I love D and hope it will succeed,


but I

 think the window of oppurtunity for D is rapdily shutting.  Its been what


over 3

 years in development ?, and from my perspective its farther from 1.0 than


it was

 4 months ago.  Am I alone in thinking we need _one_ solid release, that


won't be

 antiquated 3 months later ?  We ( by we I mean Walter :P ) could probably
 improve it , and add cool new features forever, and while I don't want to


rush

 it, I'm afraid the clock is ticking.


I hear what you're saying, and I agree. What happened is it became clear
that D needed a few more things in order to write the kind of code we need
for it. My plan is to finish up the typeinfo changes. Thereafter it will be
bug fixes and library work.
Jun 22 2004
next sibling parent reply kinghajj <kinghajj_member pathlink.com> writes:
I don't care if D doesn't become the *rage*, I'll use D as long as Walter works
on it.

However, something that could help it *alot* would be to add a standard GUI
library into Phobos, hopefully cross-platform for Win32 and Linux/Gtk. People
don't want to make command-line apps anymore, esp. not for Win32!
Jun 22 2004
parent John Reimer <jjreimer telus.net> writes:
kinghajj wrote:


 I don't care if D doesn't become the *rage*, I'll use D as long as Walter
 works on it.
 
 However, something that could help it *alot* would be to add a standard
 GUI library into Phobos, hopefully cross-platform for Win32 and Linux/Gtk.
 People don't want to make command-line apps anymore, esp. not for Win32!


A GUI for D is most certainly important, no doubt about that.  But D's
current instability is making GUI implementations fall victim to a kind of
circular dependency that stifles further progress (what's that western
idiom that Walter always uses?... the chicken and egg problem).

Creating a complicated and powerful GUI requires a stable language
implementation. That's something that D is not quite yet.  So what we have
here is a case where the language needs libraries, but complicated
libraries (like GUI's) need a stable language (one that doesn't break
library compilation after each new release).  So that, I think, is why
everybody is pining away for bug fixes.  Apparently bug-fixing is next on
Walter's agenda anyway, so hopefully everything will stablize and everyone
will be happy, happy, happy.

Later,

John
Jun 24 2004
prev sibling parent Charlie <Charlie_member pathlink.com> writes:
Phew thats a load off, you'll hear no more complaing from me :).

C

In article <cbavs1$1j9h$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Walter says...

"Charlie" <Charlie_member pathlink.com> wrote in message
news:cbatrq$1fu2$1 digitaldaemon.com...

 As soon as their is a D implementation that is bug free, and usable  ( a
 complier must work 100% everytime), I will agree that D is more powerful


than

 C++.

 I dont mean to be rude, and know that I love D and hope it will succeed,


but I

 think the window of oppurtunity for D is rapdily shutting.  Its been what


over 3

 years in development ?, and from my perspective its farther from 1.0 than


it was

 4 months ago.  Am I alone in thinking we need _one_ solid release, that


won't be

 antiquated 3 months later ?  We ( by we I mean Walter :P ) could probably
 improve it , and add cool new features forever, and while I don't want to


rush

 it, I'm afraid the clock is ticking.


I hear what you're saying, and I agree. What happened is it became clear
that D needed a few more things in order to write the kind of code we need
for it. My plan is to finish up the typeinfo changes. Thereafter it will be
bug fixes and library work.
Jun 22 2004
prev sibling parent reply "Matthew" <admin stlsoft.dot.dot.dot.dot.org> writes:
With respect, I see this as being rather naive. There is a lot of interest in D,
and much of that stretches outside what's visible on this forum.

While I believe C++ has a long and happy (albeit hard) future ahead of it, C++
is
less and less accessible to people who are not already skilled in it. The other
"modern" languages/technologies -which I assume you are alluding to - such as
.NET and Java are not now, and never will, represent a viable alternative to C++
for the majority of its areas of strength. We will continue to have the choice
of
doing bulk of non-GUI, non Web-service work done in C or, for the
brave/skilled/motivated, C++. This is where D comes in. D is *far* more
accessible than C++, has relatively few flaws in comparison to the dumbed-down
languages/technologies of Java and .NET, and will be nearly (IMO) as
powerful/general-purpose as D.

Hence D has a very good chance at becoming the best choice for a great many
purposes, and I fail to see anything that is quickly subsuming that potential
position. I think that chance is at least 20%, and probably around 40% or more.
In my book, that's *well* worth sticking around and finding out.

However, I agree that we need to get 1.0 happening, and I hope it can happen
within the next 2-3 months. (I intend to get stuck into DTL in July in a big
way,
with a hope of DTL 1.0 shipping with D 1.0).

What would be good would be if there were several non-trivial samples included
in
the 1.0 distribution. Any takers?? I'll commit to making reggrep robust and
friendly if others will also contribute some samples.

We also need to get a book on D, but's that's another story ... ;)


"Charlie" <Charlie_member pathlink.com> wrote in message
news:cbatrq$1fu2$1 digitaldaemon.com...

 As soon as their is a D implementation that is bug free, and usable  ( a
 complier must work 100% everytime), I will agree that D is more powerful than
 C++.

 I dont mean to be rude, and know that I love D and hope it will succeed, but I
 think the window of oppurtunity for D is rapdily shutting.  Its been what over


3

 years in development ?, and from my perspective its farther from 1.0 than it


was

 4 months ago.  Am I alone in thinking we need _one_ solid release, that won't


be

 antiquated 3 months later ?  We ( by we I mean Walter :P ) could probably
 improve it , and add cool new features forever, and while I don't want to rush
 it, I'm afraid the clock is ticking.

 Charlie

 In article <cbag08$sai$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Walter says...

"Matthew" <admin stlsoft.dot.dot.dot.dot.org> wrote in message
news:cb99je$1ugm$1 digitaldaemon.com...

 Philosophically: I'm not giving up on C++ yet and, while I am *very*


enthusiastic

 about D, I do not seeing it ever replace C++. I wouldn't worry about your


having

 those hard-won skills become redundant. C++ has a long life ahead of it,


probably

 about as long as D's. Where D does have the advantage, however, is that


it's

 easier to learn and teach, and has almost as much power as C++.


D has a lot of powerful capabilities that are absent from C++. Why is C++
more powerful? I don't believe it is. For example, you can't do DbC, mixins,
nested functions, delegates, etc., in C++. C++'s support for unicode is
mostly a disaster. Using gc in C++ is only for experts.
Jun 22 2004
next sibling parent reply "Kris" <someidiot earthlink.dot.dot.dot.net> writes:
"Matthew" wrote

 What would be good would be if there were several non-trivial samples


included in

 the 1.0 distribution. Any takers??


Uhhh ... there's a boat load of samples over at dsource.org, not to mention
all the projects over there. I can't imagine you consider the latter to be
trivial <g>
Jun 22 2004
parent "Matthew" <admin stlsoft.dot.dot.dot.dot.org> writes:
"Kris" <someidiot earthlink.dot.dot.dot.net> wrote in message
news:cbb5lh$1sh1$1 digitaldaemon.com...

 "Matthew" wrote

 What would be good would be if there were several non-trivial samples


 included in

 the 1.0 distribution. Any takers??


 Uhhh ... there's a boat load of samples over at dsource.org, not to mention
 all the projects over there. I can't imagine you consider the latter to be
 trivial <g>


Great!
Jun 22 2004
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Charlie <Charlie_member pathlink.com> writes:
With respect, I see this as being rather naive. There is a lot of interest in D,
and much of that stretches outside what's visible on this forum.


What did i say that was naive, i mentioned nor implied nothing on the interest
of D, only that it is _time_ for some soldification.


Hence D has a very good chance at becoming the best choice for a great many
purposes, and I fail to see anything that is quickly subsuming that potential
position. 


I see potential as the keyword here, I want to move D from 'potential' to its
rightful position at number one, and the only way I see that happening is with a
solid 1.0.


In my book, that's *well* worth sticking around and finding out.


Must you take every post as an oppurtunity for shameless self promotion ?  This
isn't even a complete sentence.


However, I agree that we need to get 1.0 happening, and I hope it can happen
within the next 2-3 months. (I intend to get stuck into DTL in July in a big
way,
with a hope of DTL 1.0 shipping with D 1.0).


And I am happy for this :).


What would be good would be if there were several non-trivial samples included
in
the 1.0 distribution.


JCC has a good tutorial/example base going at www.dsource.org , i think many of
these would do well.

Charlie

In article <cbb4pn$1rd6$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Matthew says...

With respect, I see this as being rather naive. There is a lot of interest in D,
and much of that stretches outside what's visible on this forum.

While I believe C++ has a long and happy (albeit hard) future ahead of it, C++
is
less and less accessible to people who are not already skilled in it. The other
"modern" languages/technologies -which I assume you are alluding to - such as
.NET and Java are not now, and never will, represent a viable alternative to C++
for the majority of its areas of strength. We will continue to have the choice
of
doing bulk of non-GUI, non Web-service work done in C or, for the
brave/skilled/motivated, C++. This is where D comes in. D is *far* more
accessible than C++, has relatively few flaws in comparison to the dumbed-down
languages/technologies of Java and .NET, and will be nearly (IMO) as
powerful/general-purpose as D.

Hence D has a very good chance at becoming the best choice for a great many
purposes, and I fail to see anything that is quickly subsuming that potential
position. I think that chance is at least 20%, and probably around 40% or more.
In my book, that's *well* worth sticking around and finding out.

However, I agree that we need to get 1.0 happening, and I hope it can happen
within the next 2-3 months. (I intend to get stuck into DTL in July in a big
way,
with a hope of DTL 1.0 shipping with D 1.0).

What would be good would be if there were several non-trivial samples included
in
the 1.0 distribution. Any takers?? I'll commit to making reggrep robust and
friendly if others will also contribute some samples.

We also need to get a book on D, but's that's another story ... ;)


"Charlie" <Charlie_member pathlink.com> wrote in message
news:cbatrq$1fu2$1 digitaldaemon.com...

 As soon as their is a D implementation that is bug free, and usable  ( a
 complier must work 100% everytime), I will agree that D is more powerful than
 C++.

 I dont mean to be rude, and know that I love D and hope it will succeed, but I
 think the window of oppurtunity for D is rapdily shutting.  Its been what over


3

 years in development ?, and from my perspective its farther from 1.0 than it


was

 4 months ago.  Am I alone in thinking we need _one_ solid release, that won't


be

 antiquated 3 months later ?  We ( by we I mean Walter :P ) could probably
 improve it , and add cool new features forever, and while I don't want to rush
 it, I'm afraid the clock is ticking.

 Charlie

 In article <cbag08$sai$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Walter says...

"Matthew" <admin stlsoft.dot.dot.dot.dot.org> wrote in message
news:cb99je$1ugm$1 digitaldaemon.com...

 Philosophically: I'm not giving up on C++ yet and, while I am *very*


enthusiastic

 about D, I do not seeing it ever replace C++. I wouldn't worry about your


having

 those hard-won skills become redundant. C++ has a long life ahead of it,


probably

 about as long as D's. Where D does have the advantage, however, is that


it's

 easier to learn and teach, and has almost as much power as C++.


D has a lot of powerful capabilities that are absent from C++. Why is C++
more powerful? I don't believe it is. For example, you can't do DbC, mixins,
nested functions, delegates, etc., in C++. C++'s support for unicode is
mostly a disaster. Using gc in C++ is only for experts.
Jun 22 2004
parent reply "Matthew" <admin stlsoft.dot.dot.dot.dot.org> writes:
"Charlie" <Charlie_member pathlink.com> wrote in message
news:cbb6iv$1tuc$1 digitaldaemon.com...

With respect, I see this as being rather naive. There is a lot of interest in




D,

and much of that stretches outside what's visible on this forum.


 What did i say that was naive, i mentioned nor implied nothing on the interest
 of D, only that it is _time_ for some soldification.


Hence D has a very good chance at becoming the best choice for a great many
purposes, and I fail to see anything that is quickly subsuming that potential
position.


 I see potential as the keyword here, I want to move D from 'potential' to its
 rightful position at number one, and the only way I see that happening is with


a

 solid 1.0.


In my book, that's *well* worth sticking around and finding out.


 Must you take every post as an oppurtunity for shameless self promotion ?  This
 isn't even a complete sentence.


How about you shove your head up your arse?

"In my book" is phraseology for "In my opinion", or "from my point of view".
Nothing more.
Jun 22 2004
parent Charlie <Charlie_member pathlink.com> writes:
How about you shove your head up your arse?


How about you take your head out of yours.


"In my book" is phraseology for "In my opinion", or "from my point of view".
Nothing more.


You'll forgive my mistake.

Charlie

In article <cbb9hh$21ts$2 digitaldaemon.com>, Matthew says...

"Charlie" <Charlie_member pathlink.com> wrote in message
news:cbb6iv$1tuc$1 digitaldaemon.com...

With respect, I see this as being rather naive. There is a lot of interest in




D,

and much of that stretches outside what's visible on this forum.


 What did i say that was naive, i mentioned nor implied nothing on the interest
 of D, only that it is _time_ for some soldification.


Hence D has a very good chance at becoming the best choice for a great many
purposes, and I fail to see anything that is quickly subsuming that potential
position.


 I see potential as the keyword here, I want to move D from 'potential' to its
 rightful position at number one, and the only way I see that happening is with


a

 solid 1.0.


In my book, that's *well* worth sticking around and finding out.


 Must you take every post as an oppurtunity for shameless self promotion ?  This
 isn't even a complete sentence.


How about you shove your head up your arse?

"In my book" is phraseology for "In my opinion", or "from my point of view".
Nothing more.
Jun 23 2004
prev sibling parent reply Matthias Becker <Matthias_member pathlink.com> writes:
While I believe C++ has a long and happy (albeit hard) future ahead of it, C++
is
less and less accessible to people who are not already skilled in it. The other
"modern" languages/technologies -which I assume you are alluding to - such as
.NET and Java are not now, and never will, represent a viable alternative to C++
for the majority of its areas of strength. We will continue to have the choice
of
doing bulk of non-GUI, non Web-service work done in C or, for the
brave/skilled/motivated, C++. This is where D comes in. D is *far* more
accessible than C++, has relatively few flaws in comparison to the dumbed-down
languages/technologies of Java and .NET, and will be nearly (IMO) as
powerful/general-purpose as D.

Hence D has a very good chance at becoming the best choice for a great many
purposes, and I fail to see anything that is quickly subsuming that potential
position. I think that chance is at least 20%, and probably around 40% or more.
In my book, that's *well* worth sticking around and finding out.


Hmm, currently there is no language avilable _for me_, that is a realy good
choice "for a great many purposes". A lot of things are just way to complicated
to do in languages like C++ and D. I'd love to have te expressivness and power
of languages like SML or OCaml. But there are other situations where I simply
want a larg OO-model and there C++ or D fit a lot better.
Imagine you want to write a function that simply doubles it's argument.
In ML it's no problem:

fun double x = 2 * x;


In C++ you can't even do it as you'd need a typeof to find the return-type. And
even in D it's more complicated than it looks like, as the arguments of a
function aren't in scope of the returntype (correct me if I'm wrong).

so it gets something like:

template TheReturnType(T) {
alias typeof(2*new T()) TheReturnType;
}

template doubleFunction (T)
{
TheReturnType!(T) doubleFunction (T value) 
{
return 2*value;
}
}



I'd like a language that is somewhere inbetween D and SML.
Jun 23 2004
parent reply Sean Kelly <sean f4.ca> writes:
In article <cbc56h$c1n$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Matthias Becker says...

Imagine you want to write a function that simply doubles it's argument.
In ML it's no problem:

fun double x = 2 * x;

In C++ you can't even do it as you'd need a typeof to find the return-type.


Not true:

template<typename T>
T Double( T val ) { return val * 2; }

int x = 5;
x = Double( x );

And in D:

template(T) {
T Double( T val ) { return val * 2; }
}

int x = 5;
x = Double!(typeof(x))( x );


Template functions are one place where I still consider C++ superior to D.


Sean
Jun 23 2004
parent reply Andy Friesen <andy ikagames.com> writes:
Sean Kelly wrote:

 In article <cbc56h$c1n$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Matthias Becker says...
 

Imagine you want to write a function that simply doubles it's argument.
In ML it's no problem:

fun double x = 2 * x;

In C++ you can't even do it as you'd need a typeof to find the return-type.


 
 
 Not true:
 
 [... code ...]
 
 Template functions are one place where I still consider C++ superior to D.


This isn't quite what Mattias was getting at.  Here's a more general 
example of the same notion:

In ML:

     fun multiply x y = x * y;

And in D:

     template ReturnType(A, B) {
             alias typeof(A.init*B.init) ReturnType;
     }

     template multiply(A, B) {
             ReturnType!(A, B) multiply(A a, B b) {
                     return a * b;
             }
     }

This form will properly deduce the return type regardless of the types 
of A and B. (this is only an issue when they aren't the same)

C++ is utterly helpless in this regard, since it doesn't have typeof.

  -- andy
Jun 23 2004
parent reply Sean Kelly <sean f4.ca> writes:
In article <cbcbuu$mre$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Andy Friesen says...

This isn't quite what Mattias was getting at.  Here's a more general 
example of the same notion:

In ML:

     fun multiply x y = x * y;

And in D:

     template ReturnType(A, B) {
             alias typeof(A.init*B.init) ReturnType;
     }

     template multiply(A, B) {
             ReturnType!(A, B) multiply(A a, B b) {
                     return a * b;
             }
     }

This form will properly deduce the return type regardless of the types 
of A and B. (this is only an issue when they aren't the same)

C++ is utterly helpless in this regard, since it doesn't have typeof.


Ah gotcha.  This is the same as the problems with making a non-macro version of
min and max work correctly in C++.

Sean
Jun 23 2004
parent reply Daniel Horn <hellcatv hotmail.com> writes:
You can do this easily with template magic(tm) and automatic template 
instantiation  in C++

Check it out

http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/brook/brook/include/brtvector.hpp
http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/brook/brook/include/type_promotion.hpp 

type promotion sets up the casting order
then brtvector uses it

That's what I did :-)
This is across Vector Types as well as across types of vectors 
(int,float)->float
(double,float)->double
...
...

it would have been a LOT neater if you could have partial 
specialization--but VC6 and gcc-2.95 didn't support that and those were 
some of my targets


Sean Kelly wrote:

 In article <cbcbuu$mre$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Andy Friesen says...
 

This isn't quite what Mattias was getting at.  Here's a more general 
example of the same notion:

In ML:

    fun multiply x y = x * y;

And in D:

    template ReturnType(A, B) {
            alias typeof(A.init*B.init) ReturnType;
    }

    template multiply(A, B) {
            ReturnType!(A, B) multiply(A a, B b) {
                    return a * b;
            }
    }

This form will properly deduce the return type regardless of the types 
of A and B. (this is only an issue when they aren't the same)

C++ is utterly helpless in this regard, since it doesn't have typeof.


 
 
 Ah gotcha.  This is the same as the problems with making a non-macro version of
 min and max work correctly in C++.
 
 Sean
Jun 23 2004
parent Sean Kelly <sean f4.ca> writes:
In article <cbcjdn$13dp$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Daniel Horn says...

You can do this easily with template magic(tm) and automatic template 
instantiation  in C++


I agree that you can get pretty close with traits templates, but that's far from
a simple solution.  It also becomes more complicated once user defined types are
involved.  Especially since all that works is just trying to replicate a one
line macro :)

Sean
Jun 23 2004
prev sibling next sibling parent Norbert Nemec <Norbert.Nemec gmx.de> writes:
Walter wrote:


 D has a lot of powerful capabilities that are absent from C++. Why is C++
 more powerful? I don't believe it is. For example, you can't do DbC,
 mixins, nested functions, delegates, etc., in C++. C++'s support for
 unicode is mostly a disaster. Using gc in C++ is only for experts.


Depends on how you read it:

* "D is more powerful than C++ in general" - definitely

* "D is more powerful than C++ in every respect" - not yet.
There is a number of points lacking. Most important from my perspective:
Full support for expression templates. To be more specific:
-> implicit instantiation
-> casting overloading for structs and/or struct constructors
   (static opCall is a crude hack but insufficient in some cases)
Jun 23 2004
prev sibling parent Mark Junker <mjscod gmx.de> writes:
Walter schrieb:


 D has a lot of powerful capabilities that are absent from C++. Why is C++
 more powerful? I don't believe it is. For example, you can't do DbC, mixins,
 nested functions, delegates, etc., in C++. C++'s support for unicode is
 mostly a disaster. Using gc in C++ is only for experts.


I also think that D is very interesting and powerful, but IMHO it isn't 
ready for productional use yet.

Best regards,
Mark Junker
Jun 25 2004