• Andres Rodriguez (19/19) Feb 11 2004 According to Sun's web site, "The most important Java technology release...
• Sean Kelly (9/18) Feb 11 2004 Java has always been creaky. Ask Pete Becker about trying to create the...
• Pizaz (8/15) Feb 11 2004 I thought Visual Basic was the most popular language. Perhaps that has
• Matthew (12/32) Feb 11 2004 in

"Andres Rodriguez" <rodriguez ai.sri.com> writes:

According to Sun's web site, "The most important Java technology release in
years includes new Java language updates, monitoring and management support,
and a focus on rich clients for the desktop." According to me, the whole
Java edifice is getting increasingly creaky, and preparing to collapse under
its own weight. The new generics syntax a perfect example. While I think
generics in general are a very good idea, the Java 1.5 implementation makes
far too many compromises with backwards compatibility. For instance,
potentially very inefficient boxing and unboxing is require to support
primitive data types. Furthermore, the generic collections aren't actually
statically typed. It is possible to store a Frame in a List<>String without
the compiler objecting. Most of the time, everything works, but it's very
kludgy and not at all clean. And this is just one of many examples.

It is increasingly obvious that Java is heading down the same road C++
travelled. Unless Sun is willing to throw off the chains of backwards
compatibility, someone else will. I don;t know who that someone else is, but
they will replace Java just as effectively as Java replaced C++. It might be
just possible to maintain binary compatibility with most existing Java code,
but source compatibility should be abandoned.

Elliotte Rusty Harold

Sean Kelly <sean ffwd.cx> writes:

Andres Rodriguez wrote:
 According to Sun's web site, "The most important Java technology release in
 years includes new Java language updates, monitoring and management support,
 and a focus on rich clients for the desktop." According to me, the whole
 Java edifice is getting increasingly creaky, and preparing to collapse under
 its own weight.

Java has always been creaky.  Ask Pete Becker about trying to create the 
Java standard lib sometime ;)

 It is increasingly obvious that Java is heading down the same road C++
 travelled. Unless Sun is willing to throw off the chains of backwards
 compatibility, someone else will. I don;t know who that someone else is, but
 they will replace Java just as effectively as Java replaced C++.

Java hasn't replaced C++, it has remained a niche language.  And I 
personally hope that no one considers D a "Java killer" because that 
would be selling it short.  That isn't to say that I think there aren't 
any problems with C++, but it remains the most popular language in use 
today by quite a good margin.


Sean

"Pizaz" <me here.com> writes:

I thought Visual Basic was the most popular language.  Perhaps that has
changed over the past 5 years?  I definetly know that throughout the mid to
late 90's, there were at least twice as many classifieds for VB programmers
than C/C++ developers  (at least here in the Seattle area.)
-mj


"Sean Kelly" <sean ffwd.cx> wrote in message
news:c0dr4q$8pl$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 Andres Rodriguez wrote:

<snip>
 Java hasn't replaced C++, it has remained a niche language.  And I
 personally hope that no one considers D a "Java killer" because that
 would be selling it short.  That isn't to say that I think there aren't
 any problems with C++, but it remains the most popular language in use
 today by quite a good margin.


 Sean

"Matthew" <matthew.hat stlsoft.dot.org> writes:

"Andres Rodriguez" <rodriguez ai.sri.com> wrote in message
news:c0dih4$2qm1$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 According to Sun's web site, "The most important Java technology release

in
 years includes new Java language updates, monitoring and management

support,
 and a focus on rich clients for the desktop." According to me, the whole
 Java edifice is getting increasingly creaky, and preparing to collapse

under
 its own weight. The new generics syntax a perfect example. While I think
 generics in general are a very good idea, the Java 1.5 implementation

makes
 far too many compromises with backwards compatibility. For instance,
 potentially very inefficient boxing and unboxing is require to support
 primitive data types. Furthermore, the generic collections aren't actually
 statically typed. It is possible to store a Frame in a List<>String

without
 the compiler objecting. Most of the time, everything works, but it's very
 kludgy and not at all clean. And this is just one of many examples.

 It is increasingly obvious that Java is heading down the same road C++
 travelled. Unless Sun is willing to throw off the chains of backwards
 compatibility, someone else will. I don;t know who that someone else is,

but
 they will replace Java just as effectively as Java replaced C++.

So when did that happen, eh?

What a joke.

Do you expect us to take the rest your post seriously?

 It might be
 just possible to maintain binary compatibility with most existing Java

code,
 but source compatibility should be abandoned.

 Elliotte Rusty Harold